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Thread: Austerity Measures: Greece vs Ireland - a comparison

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    Politics.ie Member Malbekh's Avatar
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    Default Austerity Measures: Greece vs Ireland - a comparison

    Yes, after availing of the EU/IMF Stability Fund and paying a modest 5% rate of interest on the €110b in funding required to stabilise the country's finances, the IMF and the EU have insisted on the following austerity measures:

    *Reduce the budget deficit from 13.6% to 3% by 2014
    *Pay freeze on all public sector employees
    *Scrapping the annual bonus scheme (basically a 20% bonus on wages)
    *Increase in the retirement age from the current one of 62
    *Full pension rights increased from minimum 37 to 40 years service
    *Pensions to reflect average rather than final salary in the public sector
    *VAT from 21% to 23%, increases to alcohol, cigarettes and fuel taxation
    *Taxing of illegal construcion
    *Privatisation of various state and semi-state bodies

    Above we can see what the dreaded IMF will insist on just to provide Greece with the funding required to keep the nation afloat. Scary eh? Not really is it?

    Let's be clear, regardless of our banking crisis and our incompetent governance, we are not Greece, not by a long way. Firstly we never lied about our balance of payments, we are a genuine open market economy, we have a generous corporate rate of tax, we have a language that everyone understands and we don't rely on tourism as an exclusive means to wealth.

    So if we were to avail of the solidarity fund, how much worse would it be compared to the austerity measures that we have put in place and are going to put in place? Not a lot based on the evidence above.

    But in the meantime, let's just destroy what's left of our economy while we pretend that the markets will allow us a sub-5% yield and that we can actually manage to get our deficit to 3% by 2014....
    Blessed be the threadmakers.

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    Politics.ie Member Boy M5's Avatar
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    I think we may have to access it in time....

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    I hate all this talk about increasing the retirement-age. People over 55 are kicked out of their jobs into early pension and if anyone of that age happens to be unemployed the chances of anyone hiring him are virtually zero.

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    Politics.ie Member spidermom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malbekh View Post
    Yes, after availing of the EU/IMF Stability Fund and paying a modest 5% rate of interest on the €110b in funding required to stabilise the country's finances, the IMF and the EU have insisted on the following austerity measures:

    *Reduce the budget deficit from 13.6% to 3% by 2014
    *Pay freeze on all public sector employees
    *Scrapping the annual bonus scheme (basically a 20% bonus on wages)
    *Increase in the retirement age from the current one of 62
    *Full pension rights increased from minimum 37 to 40 years service
    *Pensions to reflect average rather than final salary in the public sector
    *VAT from 21% to 23%, increases to alcohol, cigarettes and fuel taxation
    *Taxing of illegal construcion
    *Privatisation of various state and semi-state bodies

    Above we can see what the dreaded IMF will insist on just to provide Greece with the funding required to keep the nation afloat. Scary eh? Not really is it?

    Let's be clear, regardless of our banking crisis and our incompetent governance, we are not Greece, not by a long way. Firstly we never lied about our balance of payments, we are a genuine open market economy, we have a generous corporate rate of tax, we have a language that everyone understands and we don't rely on tourism as an exclusive means to wealth.

    So if we were to avail of the solidarity fund, how much worse would it be compared to the austerity measures that we have put in place and are going to put in place? Not a lot based on the evidence above.

    But in the meantime, let's just destroy what's left of our economy while we pretend that the markets will allow us a sub-5% yield and that we can actually manage to get our deficit to 3% by 2014....
    Thats what they did in Greece.
    How do you presume thats what they would do here???(genuine question!!)
    When a man sits with a pretty girl for an hour, it seems like a minute. But let him sit on a hot stove for a minute and it's longer than any hour. That's relativity.

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    Politics.ie Member spidermom's Avatar
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    When a man sits with a pretty girl for an hour, it seems like a minute. But let him sit on a hot stove for a minute and it's longer than any hour. That's relativity.

    ALBERT EINSTEIN

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    Politics.ie Member Malbekh's Avatar
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    Spideymom it entirely depends on your perspective. If we are in a worse position than Greece, then the sooner we take on the solidarity fund the better. If we are in a better position than Greece, why then do we need to bleed the country dry and pawn it off to the international market? The sooner we take the solidarity bond, the better.

    My point is that whatever austerity measures the IMF/EU inflict, they will be no worse than the ones imposed on Greece. So why take the risk and the death by 1000 cuts?
    Blessed be the threadmakers.

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    Politics.ie Member Libero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malbekh
    My point is that whatever austerity measures the IMF/EU inflict, they will be no worse than the ones imposed on Greece. So why take the risk and the death by 1000 cuts?
    Why? WHY?

    Because, dear Malbekh, the IMF/EU may decide to dictate the exact detail of certain required adjustments, thus preventing the government from applying its preferences as to who is cut and who is protected.

    Imagine that! The pensioners, the quangos and the local authorities may get hit full square; the government wouldn't be able to save them by shovelling the burden onto soft targets like carers and the young unemployed. Above all, the Croke Park agreement would be junked, further sending the public sector vote to Labour.

    The horror!

    So if avoiding that nightmare scenario means higher debt repayments, that may be a price worth paying (or, to be more accurate, a price worth making you pay).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Libero View Post
    Why? WHY?

    Because, dear Malbekh, the IMF/EU may decide to dictate the exact detail of certain required adjustments, thus preventing the government from applying its preferences as to who is cut and who is protected.

    Imagine that! The pensioners, the quangos and the local authorities may get hit full square; the government wouldn't be able to save them by shovelling the burden onto soft targets like carers and the young unemployed. Above all, the Croke Park agreement would be junked, further sending the public sector vote to Labour.

    The horror!

    So if avoiding that nightmare scenario means higher debt repayments, that may be a price worth paying (or, to be more accurate, a price worth making you pay).
    Ah yes but Labour may be in government by the time the EU/IMF come knocking at the door and all of Gilmore's unions mates will have a tough time explaining to their public sector members why they will have to take draconian pay cuts. I actually do look forward to that day. Then again FG and FF could always go into government leaving Comrade Eamonn to stew on the opposition benches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malbekh View Post
    Firstly we never lied about our balance of payments
    Don't hold your breath.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malbekh View Post
    But in the meantime, let's just destroy what's left of our economy while we pretend that the markets will allow us a sub-5% yield and that we can actually manage to get our deficit to 3% by 2014....
    The market, the Government and the European Union all know that the 3% by 2014 will not be achieved.

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    Politics.ie Member spidermom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malbekh View Post
    Spideymom it entirely depends on your perspective. If we are in a worse position than Greece, then the sooner we take on the solidarity fund the better. If we are in a better position than Greece, why then do we need to bleed the country dry and pawn it off to the international market? The sooner we take the solidarity bond, the better.

    My point is that whatever austerity measures the IMF/EU inflict, they will be no worse than the ones imposed on Greece. So why take the risk and the death by 1000 cuts?

    The more I ponder..the more I agree!
    Have met with opposition TDs of late(another matter entirely) and while we discussed the matter at hand..they informed me of the dire consequences of the IMF/EU etc taking over...seems to me, we would have fresh unfettered, de-vested interested eyes looking at our situation. Might be the best worst option at the mo....(??)


    Sure GOD knows...we do not have economic sovereignity anyhows...... or do we??
    When a man sits with a pretty girl for an hour, it seems like a minute. But let him sit on a hot stove for a minute and it's longer than any hour. That's relativity.

    ALBERT EINSTEIN

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