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Thread: Only unionists can create a united Ireland

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    Politics.ie Member Schomberg's Avatar
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    Default Only unionists can create a united Ireland

    Good article by Pete Shirlow in todays Newsletter

    The Union is an idea but Northern Ireland is a working reality says PETE SHIRLOW
    The issue concerning the Union with Great Britain is not so much a matter of what Northern Ireland will be in 2021 but more about how identity is shifting and adapting to the consequences of devolution and
    our ability to shape and fashion shared future


    Undoubtedly, identity is being shaped and fashioned by forces, ideas and lifestyles that are beyond the control of the political classes.

    The internet, globalisation and changes in the labour market are now the sites in which the present and future are being shaped.

    Identity is less likely to be framed by religion, history or 'values' that shaped the island of Ireland in the 20th century.

    The once conservative grip on the people of this island changed with the onset of new labour markets, changing consumption practices and the
    decline in the relevance of nationalism, whether Irish or British, as articles of complete faith and uncomplicated devotion.

    The problem being, many pretend these identities are more important to them than they really are.

    evident shifts are to be found in two ways: The Life and Times Survey of 2009 indicated that 47 per cent of Catholic respondents supported the link with the UK, mostly via the option of devolution.

    In the recent Westminster elections it could be estimated that some 45 per cent of those from unionist backgrounds did not vote.

    Only unionists can create a united Ireland - Belfast Today
    What have British in Ireland contributed to Ireland? Nothing of the scale that the Irish have contributed to Britain. - Runswithwind.

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    Staters and Jaffas coming together....How sweet...

    "Since 1923 Ireland has been full of internment camps of one form or another - both in the North and in the South. Despite their differences, there has been a convergence of interests between Belfast, Dublin and London in ensuring that any opposition to the existing states be fought and defeated. The ruling class in Ireland have their own form of self-determination, and they intend to keep it that way. One final word on the state in Eire. There you have Special Courts, internment camps, Offences Against the State Act, censorship, etc. - some «free nation» Arthur Griffith envisaged!"

    Amadeo Bordiga.

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    Politics.ie Member Arracht's Avatar
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    .....decline in the relevance of nationalism, whether Irish or British, as articles of complete faith and uncomplicated devotion.

    The problem being, many pretend these identities are more important to them than they really are
    Perhaps a reference to outmoded organisations like the orange order?

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    Politics.ie Member Schomberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arracht View Post
    Perhaps a reference to outmoded organisations like the orange order?
    how do you mean? The OO is not a nationalist group. Patriotism and nationalism are not the same thing
    What have British in Ireland contributed to Ireland? Nothing of the scale that the Irish have contributed to Britain. - Runswithwind.

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    Politics.ie Member SlabMurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schomberg View Post
    Good article by Pete Shirlow in todays Newsletter
    The Union is an idea but Northern Ireland is a working reality says PETE SHIRLOW
    The issue concerning the Union with Great Britain is not so much a matter of what Northern Ireland will be in 2021 but more about how identity is shifting and adapting to the consequences of devolution and
    our ability to shape and fashion shared future


    Undoubtedly, identity is being shaped and fashioned by forces, ideas and lifestyles that are beyond the control of the political classes.

    The internet, globalisation and changes in the labour market are now the sites in which the present and future are being shaped.

    Identity is less likely to be framed by religion, history or 'values' that shaped the island of Ireland in the 20th century.

    The once conservative grip on the people of this island changed with the onset of new labour markets, changing consumption practices and the
    decline in the relevance of nationalism, whether Irish or British, as articles of complete faith and uncomplicated devotion.

    The problem being, many pretend these identities are more important to them than they really are.

    evident shifts are to be found in two ways: The Life and Times Survey of 2009 indicated that 47 per cent of Catholic respondents supported the link with the UK, mostly via the option of devolution.

    In the recent Westminster elections it could be estimated that some 45 per cent of those from unionist backgrounds did not vote.

    Only unionists can create a united Ireland - Belfast Today
    The good old Life and Times Survey God do they never tire of trotting that old one out, but then sure their unionists, they have to grasp at every straw.

    " some 45 per cent of those from unionist backgrounds did not vote. " I suppose that was from Life and Times Survey also Yeah, and I could have got a date with Miss World last night

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    I think that the article contains much good sense.

    The drive for a separate Northern Ireland was about winning land in an ethnic battle. Which was done.

    The drive for a United Ireland was, and is, to reverse that defeat.

    The problem for the writer, and his sympathisers, is that the more NI becomes inclusive, and fair, and allows Irish Nationalist people to feel 'at home', the more it's raison d'etre disappears.

    We do, after all, live on an island, and are, it would appear, sexually attracted to each other.

    The reasons for Protestant separateness in Ireland wither away by the year.

    I think there will be a United Ireland, but it won't be the current ROI writ large.

    The RC Church had to go - and it's currently closing the door behind it.

    And the fact that Unionist politicos discuss their future on here is because, over the water, they're not that interested, are they?

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    Politics.ie Member eoghanacht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schomberg View Post
    Good article by Pete Shirlow in todays Newsletter




    Only unionists can create a united Ireland - Belfast Today
    Well doh!
    Britain operated death squads - ''97% of the Loyalists I interviewed were working directly for the State.'' - Nuala O'Loan. #FreeAhedTamimi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schomberg View Post
    how do you mean? The OO is not a nationalist group. Patriotism and nationalism are not the same thing
    Ah, but is it? It is definitely dedicated to the idea of "British nationalism", of course that is often dressed up as overcoming "nationalism", when really it's nothing of the sort.

    And of course, the OO has a strained history as regards national movements. Just look at what happened over the Act of Union in 1800.

    Anyway the title of the article has it spot on - the key to a United Ireland is convincing enough Unionists to buy into it.

    I'm not expecting another Volunteer Convention like in 1782 - but who knows what the future holds.

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    Politics.ie Member cry freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schomberg View Post
    Good article by Pete Shirlow in todays Newsletter




    Only unionists can create a united Ireland - Belfast Today
    Would have to agree.
    Just as in most marriages the person with the lowest sex drive controls the situation.

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    Yes he is right when he says that around 45% of unionists did not vote. However he neglected to mention that around 40% of nationalists did not vote either.

    As for the Life and Times surveys. Not even worth the argument.

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