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Thread: The Rev Karl Barth on Comrade Stalin.

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    Default The Rev Karl Barth on Comrade Stalin.

    The Rev Karl Barth is without doubt the most influential and widely considered both within Protestant and Roman Catholic circles probably the greatest theologian of the 20 th century had this to say in 1949 as hysteria mounted at the beginning of the cold war...

    [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Barth"]Karl Barth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Wikipedia-karlbarth01.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Wikipedia-karlbarth01.jpg/220px-Wikipedia-karlbarth01.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/a/a8/Wikipedia-karlbarth01.jpg/220px-Wikipedia-karlbarth01.jpg[/ame]

    "It is pertinent not to omit to discriminate in our view of contemporary Communism between its totalitarian atrocities as such and the positive intention behind them. And if one tries to do that, one cannot say of Communism what one was forced to say of Nazism ten years ago - that what it means and intends is pure unreason, the product of madness and crime. It would be quite absurd to mention in the same breath the philosophy of Marxism and the “ideology” of the Third Reich, to mention a man of the stature of Joseph Stalin in the same breath as such charlatans as Hitler, Goering, Hess, Goebbels, Himmler, Ribbentrop, Rosenberg, Streicher, etc. What has been tackled in Soviet Russia - albeit with very dirty and bloody hands and in a way that rightly shocks us - is, after all, a constructive idea, the solution of a problem which is a serious and burning problem for us as well, and which we with our clean hands have not yet tackled anything like energetically enough: the social problem."

    And while Popes were being hysterical he said this...

    "In its relationship to Christianity, Communism, as distinguished from Nazism, has not done, and by its very nature cannot do, one thing: it has never made the slightest attempt to reinterpret or to falsify Christianity, or to shroud itself in a Christian garment.... There is nothing of the false prophet about it. It is not anti-Christian."

    "Class contradiction, says socialism, is the daily crime of capitalism. This system of production must therefore fall, especially its underlying principle: private property - not private property in general, but private ownership of the mean of production.... the boundless competition between individual producers must fall; and the state, the whole, must itself become the producer and therefore the owner of the means of production. Jesus is more socialist than the socialists.... Jesus’ view of property is this: Property is sin, because property is self-seeking."

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    Politics.ie Member Old Mr Grouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SevenStars View Post
    "It would be quite absurd to mention in the same breath the philosophy of Marxism and the “ideology” of the Third Reich, [B]to mention a man of the stature of Joseph Stalin in the same breath as such charlatans as Hitler, Goering, Hess, Goebbels, Himmler, Ribbentrop, Rosenberg, Streicher, etc.

    "In its relationship to Christianity, Communism, as distinguished from Nazism, has not done, and by its very nature cannot do, one thing: it has never made the slightest attempt to reinterpret or to falsify Christianity, or to shroud itself in a Christian garment.... There is nothing of the false prophet about it. It is not anti-Christian."

    ... Jesus is more socialist than the socialists.... Jesus’ view of property is this: Property is sin, because property is self-seeking."
    What a depraved and demented cleric. If he had been Catholic he'd have had a top job at the Vatican.

    But I see that some Russians want Stalin to be canonised:

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPA-eDaB4GM]YouTube - Saint Joseph Stalin[/ame]
    Last edited by Old Mr Grouser; 27th October 2010 at 12:54 AM. Reason: typo

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    By the same token, right libertarianism could sustain a completely just and compassionate society in Heaven because the inhabitants of Heaven are (presumably) free of the kinds human limitations that caused all governmental/economic systems on Earth to decline into corruption and tyranny. In other words, the need for a socialist-like system would be preempted there. It therefore can’t be the case that a system which is workable at that higher level of existence is NECESSARILY also workable on Earth. No, we can’t look firstly to theologians and prophets in this area. (I dare say that the dream of a more civilized social order isn‘t exclusively theirs. In fact, they‘ve often times stood in opposition to that goal. )

    The genocidal brutality of Western corporatocracy is undeniable. However, the Soviet Union’s record is too mixed to serve as a model for the future. Besides, the Bolsheviks were but one faction of Marxism. Therefore, we could just as easily take inspiration from the embryonic council communism of the early years of the Revolution.

    A lot of people have been conditioned to think of socialism and capitalism in rigid, absolute terms. In reality, of course, there have always existed within both of those broad groupings many divergent and antagonistic tendencies. Also, alternative models like syndicalism usually don’t get much attention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Mr Grouser View Post
    What a depraved and demented cleric. If he had been Catholic he'd have had a top job at the Vatican.

    But I see that some Russians want Stalin to be canonised:

    YouTube - Saint Joseph Stalin
    How would he got the top job if he was Catholic. Do you actually know anything about the Catholic Church other than the rubbish you hear at your bible meetings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Mr Grouser View Post
    But I see that some Russians want Stalin to be canonised:
    Not just some...Plenty...And given that schism between ROCOR and the MP has been sorted it should happen soon enough...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SevenStars View Post
    Not just some...Plenty...And given that schism between ROCOR and the MP has been sorted it should happen soon enough...
    A bit of nostalgia for good old Uncle Joe

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn7Yh78h4dg&feature=fvw]YouTube - Stalin Nostalgia - Russia[/ame]

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    Quote Originally Posted by ne0ica View Post
    Do you actually know anything about the Catholic Church other than the rubbish you hear at your bible meetings.
    I'm sad to say that the rubbish that infuriated me was the rubbish that I was hearing as a Catholic from the 1970s on - until, by the grace of God and only by the grace of God, I left the RCC and joined an evangelical church.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SevenStars View Post
    "Class contradiction, says socialism, is the daily crime of capitalism. This system of production must therefore fall, especially its underlying principle: private property - not private property in general, but private ownership of the mean of production.... the boundless competition between individual producers must fall; and the state, the whole, must itself become the producer and therefore the owner of the means of production. Jesus is more socialist than the socialists.... Jesus’ view of property is this: Property is sin, because property is self-seeking."
    Obviously, the Rev. Barth was a true follower of Christ. I also consider property to be sin, as it is the perversion of desire.

    I would certainly regard Jesus as one of the great Communist philosophers.
    Last edited by Cael; 28th October 2010 at 01:32 AM.

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    Politics.ie Member Old Mr Grouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cael View Post
    Obviously, the Rev. Barth was a true follower of Christ. I also consider property to be sin, as it is the perversion of desire.

    I would certainly regard Jesus as one of the great Communist philosophers.
    "I would certainly regard Jesus as one of the great Communist philosophers."

    This is the style of Post Modernist thinking that is destroying Western Culture.

    Instead of looking at reality you look inside your head, and to the images you have there.

    You reason like someone that has served time in Maynooth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Mr Grouser View Post
    "I would certainly regard Jesus as one of the great Communist philosophers."

    This is the style of Post Modernist thinking that is destroying Western Culture.

    Instead of looking at reality you look inside your head, and to the images you have there.

    You reason like someone that has served time in Maynooth.
    Well, Stalin would only sent the rich man to the gulag. Jesus would send him to burn in hell for all of eternity. Why, because the hoarding of personal wealth is sin.

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