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Thread: Ireland's greatest: an overlooked candidate

  1. #1
    Politics.ie Member antiestablishmentarian's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Ireland's greatest: an overlooked candidate

    I was recently fortunate enough to pick up one of the original first 150 copies of Édouard Dolléans 1912 work Le Chartisme for the steal price of €1 and have been reading it with great interest since. The book itself is a description of the roots of the Chartist Movement and that Movement's history, but one of the things I was surprised to learn upon reading it was the effect upon the development of that movement that one James 'Bronterre' O'Brien had. Born in Co. Longford in 1805, the man was by all accounts a genius- he spoke French, Latin, Greek and Italian by the age of 9 and was an orator of outstanding ability, able to speak for 3-4 hours at a stretch. There are a number of things that have struck me about him from what I've read so far.

    1. His recognition of the class nature of capitalism and the power possessed by the capitalist and aristocratic class over the working and labouring classes by their control of the means of production and accumlation of the workers produce- not too dissimilar from the ideas of a certain German economist.
    2. His emphasis on the need for independent working class action and his point that the interests of the workers and capitalists were not reconcilable.
    3. He was a great struggler for the removal of property rights for voting and a champion of universal suffrage and the free press.

    He seems to have been forgotten and indeed was forgotten in his own lifetime after the end of the Chartist movement, dying bedridden and in poverty in London in 1864, where he's buried today in Abney Park Cemetery.

    James Bronterre O'Brien - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    http://www.politicalworld.org/
    'Our goal is to conquer state power for the Irish working class' Pat Rabitte, 1987

  2. #2
    Politics.ie Member ocoonassa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antiestablishmentarian View Post
    the effect upon the development of that movement that one James 'Bronterre' O'Brien had.
    Fergus O'Connor was no slouch either. I think without these Irishmen the English would still have no vote petunia

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    Politics.ie Member spotty's Avatar
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    Spotty thinks this could be a super thread. That programme omitted many fine nominees.

    Spotty's nominee, for the record:

    Founded the Financial Times.

    Managed Churchill's bid to be PM in 1940

    Was Churchill's main speechwriter, strategist, and confidante during WWII.

    And he was from Tipperary.

    It really doesn't matter, though, in Ireland, if you are a poor runaway from County Tipp who helped save the world from Hitler and founded one of the world's most influential newspapers.

    As long as you did it in England, you are officially an unperson.

    Brendan Bracken, 1st Viscount Bracken - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Brendan Bracken, 1st Viscount Bracken - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Spotty. A pimple on the arse of politics.

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    Politics.ie Member spotty's Avatar
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    More on Bracken:

    I didn't know until now that he was the inspiration for "Big Brother" in Orwell's book.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-_q8BB4jaE]YouTube - "Brendan Bracken Churchills Secret Son..? promo[/ame]
    Spotty. A pimple on the arse of politics.

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    Daniel O'Connell is Irelands most obvious choice for greatest Irishman award.

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    Politics.ie Member antiestablishmentarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spotty View Post
    Spotty thinks this could be a super thread. That programme omitted many fine nominees.

    Spotty's nominee, for the record:

    Founded the Financial Times.

    Managed Churchill's bid to be PM in 1940

    Was Churchill's main speechwriter, strategist, and confidante during WWII.

    And he was from Tipperary.

    It really doesn't matter, though, in Ireland, if you are a poor runaway from County Tipp who helped save the world from Hitler and founded one of the world's most influential newspapers.

    As long as you did it in England, you are officially an unperson.

    Brendan Bracken, 1st Viscount Bracken - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Brendan Bracken, 1st Viscount Bracken - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Interesting stuff: any books on him?
    http://www.politicalworld.org/
    'Our goal is to conquer state power for the Irish working class' Pat Rabitte, 1987

  7. #7
    Politics.ie Member spotty's Avatar
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    Charles Lysaght wrote his biography.

    Brendan Bracken: The Fantasist Whose Dreams Came True
    Spotty. A pimple on the arse of politics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spotty View Post
    Spotty thinks this could be a super thread. That programme omitted many fine nominees.

    Spotty's nominee, for the record:

    Founded the Financial Times.

    Managed Churchill's bid to be PM in 1940

    Was Churchill's main speechwriter, strategist, and confidante during WWII.

    And he was from Tipperary.

    It really doesn't matter, though, in Ireland, if you are a poor runaway from County Tipp who helped save the world from Hitler and founded one of the world's most influential newspapers.

    As long as you did it in England, you are officially an unperson.

    Brendan Bracken, 1st Viscount Bracken - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Brendan Bracken, 1st Viscount Bracken - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Just from the tone of that Wikipedia article it seems he would rather of officially disregarded his Irishness. Interesting character though, but sure as Daniel O'Connell said about the Duke of Wellington "The poor old Duke! What shall I say of him? To be sure he was born in Ireland, but being born in a stable does not make a man a horse."

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    Politics.ie Member Schomberg's Avatar
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    I'm surprised O'Connell wasn't in there. after seeing this below he maybe wasn't as bad as I once thought..

    That Daniel O’Connell toasted the memory of King William at a meeting in Drogheda?
    Daniel O’Connell begun a new organisation called the Loyal National Repeal Association. He stressed that his organization was loyal to the Kingdom and venerated Queen Victoria. He said ‘the Irish people recognize, acknowledge and maintain and will continually preserve and uphold the throne of Ireland; Her Majesty Queen Victoria, who God Protect’. He went on to say ‘ the connection between Great Britain and Ireland, by means of power, authority and prerogatives of the Crown, to be perpetual and incapable of change or any severance of separation’. He ended the speech by drinking a tumbler of Boyne water and toasting the ‘Glorious and Immortal Memory’ of King William.
    Did you know? | Dublin & Wicklow L.O.L. 1313
    What have British in Ireland contributed to Ireland? Nothing of the scale that the Irish have contributed to Britain. - Runswithwind.

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    Politics.ie Member ne0ica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spotty View Post
    Spotty thinks this could be a super thread. That programme omitted many fine nominees.

    Spotty's nominee, for the record:

    Founded the Financial Times.

    Managed Churchill's bid to be PM in 1940

    Was Churchill's main speechwriter, strategist, and confidante during WWII.

    And he was from Tipperary.

    It really doesn't matter, though, in Ireland, if you are a poor runaway from County Tipp who helped save the world from Hitler and founded one of the world's most influential newspapers.

    As long as you did it in England, you are officially an unperson.

    Brendan Bracken, 1st Viscount Bracken - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Brendan Bracken, 1st Viscount Bracken - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Spotty, still how would that make him one of Irelands greatest? He would have contributed nothing to Ireland.

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