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Thread: Annexation of West Bank permanent

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    Politics.ie Member Thac0man's Avatar
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    Default Annexation of West Bank permanent

    A report from UN human rights rapporteur Richard Falk seems to state the obvious; that Israeli settlements make the effective annexation of the Westbank by Isreal a done deal. From the bbc:

    BBC News - Israeli presence on Palestinian land 'irreversible'

    It makes uncomfortable reading. The PA has had no choice but to negotiate, the people it represents having to live their daily lives via a serious of Isreali checkpoints and their livelihoods dependant to a large extent on Isreal. With Isreali settlements building now at a pace four times that which it was before the recent (and short lived) freeze the settlements look set to expend.

    But it brings into focus what Likud hopes to achieve. Any escalation by Hamas could give the Likud and indeed Shas the excuse they need to further extent 'security zones' around settlements (which currently stands officially at 300m). With a PA that has no effective military, Isreal has no clear path towards claiming a military victory and justifiable excuse to extend the occupation and annexation of the Westbank on the grounds of security. Hamas though may be keen to extend Tel Aviv the opportunity.

    But in the face of the Abbas government not provoking Isreal and giving Tel Aviv an excuse, what is the final plan for Likud? Surely the issue of settlements is not in itself final, but being passed onto another generation of Isreali and Palestinian politicians? How can they garner recognition for land that is not theirs? Is there a two state solution in the pipeline that involves two Israeli states? That is the only possible way forward if Isreal proper is to extracate itself from an unrecognised Westbank Jewish state and the imbargos it might invite.

    There is no hope of anyone actually recognising the Westbank as Israeli soverign soil. On the basis of this report could the EU apply more economic pressure on Isreal? And if we are to do so, and assuming we are not going to be idiots about it, what price should we extract from the Arab and Muslim world for our aid?

    We should perhaps now be even more cautious about the publicity seeking 'Free Gaza' types. Free Gaza? When the majority of Palestinian land is under de facto Isreali control and is annexed. Gaza is actually and rather ironically more free than the Westbank. Its inhabitants only enjoy less political freedom.

    What is the way forward for the EU on this issue? And will the arab world and Iran continue to do anything other than use the Palestinians are pawns in their games of self interest?

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    Lebensraum for the Isreali Reich.

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    Politics.ie Member Clanrickard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thac0man View Post

    But in the face of the Abbas government not provoking Isreal and giving Tel Aviv an excuse, what is the final plan for Likud? Surely the issue of settlements is not in itself final, but being passed onto another generation of Isreali and Palestinian politicians? How can they garner recognition for land that is not theirs? Is there a two state solution in the pipeline that involves two Israeli states? That is the only possible way forward if Isreal proper is to extracate itself from an unrecognised Westbank Jewish state and the imbargos it might invite.
    The question is what do they do about the demographic time bomb? Israel cannot annex the West Bank because it would have to confer Israeli citizenship on the Palestinians which they don't want to do.

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    Politics.ie Member dresden8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clanrickard View Post
    The question is what do they do about the demographic time bomb? Israel cannot annex the West Bank because it would have to confer Israeli citizenship on the Palestinians which they don't want to do.
    One thing we should have learnt over time is that Israel doesn't have to do anything they don't want to.

    They can steal as much land and kill as many people as they want and the US and the EU will still give them special privileges.

    Nothing new here.

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    Politics.ie Member Thac0man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clanrickard View Post
    The question is what do they do about the demographic time bomb? Israel cannot annex the West Bank because it would have to confer Israeli citizenship on the Palestinians which they don't want to do.
    Yes, that was kind of the point I was making about Likud and Shas simply passing on the problem to future generations.

    I for one would urge President Abbas to unilaterally declare the Palestinian state now. What apart from the self interest of Israels Arab neighbours is holding him back? The Palestinians have been cornered by Israels continued use of stalling tactics and the self interest of Hamas.

    What nation in Europe would not recognise Palestine? It would force the champaign left to actually face reality and back Palestine in action, rather than just turn up for photo shoots on all expences paid cruises to Gaza.

    Tel Aviv has played winner takes all and has for a long time held all the cards. Now there is no reason for the PA to wait any longer. The need to go for independance. It is Isreal under Likud, not the PA, who is an unsuitable partner for peace. Abbas should declare and be damned. Whats the worst Isreal could do and not make the price of friendship with Isreal a heavier burden than it already is?

    The PA is on the verge of loosing everything and erstwhile friends like Hezzbollah and Hamas don't care a jot. The PA has to take the lead. If Kosovo can be free, why not Palestine. It is already proven that a declaration of independance would not be illegal under international law.

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    Politics.ie Member Thac0man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dresden8 View Post
    One thing we should have learnt over time is that Israel doesn't have to do anything they don't want to.

    They can steal as much land and kill as many people as they want and the US and the EU will still give them special privileges.

    Nothing new here.
    Whats new is that the usual 'anti-zionist' brigade have shut the f**k up now that the Palestinian authority is on the verge of losing what little they hold in the name of Palestinians. Instead the self interested navel gazing ar*eholes have kept their eyes firmly on the ground waiting Tehrans line so they have something to Parrot. Its sickening. Where is any pro-Palestinian group on the issue? Hamas and the IDF have a tiff and they throw a hysterical fit tossing pictures of dead babies about like they are confetti. The Westbank is day by day being absorbed and annexed by Isreal and all they do is shut up. The process of annexation is now in overdrive and still there is silence. Why is that? Because it suits the Hamas and anti-jewish agenda while the actual Palestinans can feck themselves, thats why. Its a sorry and deeply shoddy sight.

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    Politics.ie Member FutureTaoiseach's Avatar
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    Underlines the moral imperative to boycott goods exported from the Israeli Reich and its Lebensraum in the West Bank. The annexation of the West Bank has always been a defining-goal of Likud since its foundation. What will happen closely parallels Apartheid because if Israeli Jews control the landmass consisting of both Israel and the Occupied Territories, then eventually the Arabs will outnumber them in that landmass, turning Israel into a full Apartheid state where Whites will govern non-Whites along Apartheid lines. Imperialism and democracy are fundamentally at odds, and the Zionist regime - which allows West Bank settlers to vote for the Israeli Knesset but not West Bank Arabs, is clearly an Apartheid fascist statelet. Boycott goods and picket shops that stock Israeli goods. Furthermore, press Micheal Martin to veto any upgrade in trade or political-relations with Israel.

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    Politics.ie Member Clanrickard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FutureTaoiseach View Post
    the Israeli Reich and its Lebensraum in the West Bank.
    FT using words like the above undermines your credibility in this argument. Thaco is right the PA should declare Independence unilaterally and there would be 57 nations in the Islamic block who would back them and probably a few more thrown in. That is the way to go. It would give a strong hand to the majority of Israelis who want out of the Occupied Territories.

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    Politics.ie Member Thac0man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clanrickard View Post
    That is the way to go. It would give a strong hand to the majority of Israelis who want out of the Occupied Territories.
    It would be that. The declaration of a Palestinian state would also open the way for any future Tel Aviv government, without Likud, to recognise said state. That in turn would bind Isreal, by its own laws, to remove settlements or withdraw support for them. Shas and Likud would be left without any options on how to progress their respective agendas.

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    Politics.ie Member gijoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dresden8 View Post
    One thing we should have learnt over time is that Israel doesn't have to do anything they don't want to.

    They can steal as much land and kill as many people as they want and the US and the EU will still give them special privileges.

    Nothing new here.
    Sh1t happens in war. If you pick a fight with a neighbour you can expect that neighbour to take territory off you that provides a tactical advantage in any future conflict, such as the Golan Heights as a strategic buffer against Syria and the Jordan river as a natural barrier on the West Bank. Egypt made a long-term peace with Israel and got Sinai back. That is the way it goes.

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