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Thread: How well is NAMA run? The FT questions its competence.

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    Politics.ie Member Boy M5's Avatar
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    Default How well is NAMA run? The FT questions its competence.

    In yesterday's FT Jonathan Guthrie (who writes on the UK Midlands and enterprise) has a rather worrying piece about a NAMA funded property in Wolverhampton. In short NAMA valued a property at £4 M, the administrator (UK examiner) of the failed developer managed to get an offer of £11M. It apparently took NAMA days to respond on a simple decision with a beneficial outcome for Irish taxpayers. The FT hack implies it doesn't have a clue.

    FT.com / Comment / Op-Ed Columnists - Art for art

    When you are trying to create value from distressed assets speed is crucial - its like any financial market.

    If NAMA can't respond quickly to a simple solution someone else has created, what hope is there?

    It is possible that perhaps NAMA saw the potential of a better outcome? However, they have to work closely with the insolvency practioners & know exactly what is going on.

    Is it perhaps that the same economically iliterate & apparently venal supposed bankers & property consultants who contributed greatly into getting us into this mess are now engaged in NAMA and are again not competent for their new roles? Or is it that NAMA does not have the required culture & infrastructure for its critical role?

    Has anyone knowledge of how well NAMA is run & managed? Does anyone have 1st hand experience of working with NAMA?

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    Its just another example of the failure of bureaucracy. Have any of these pen pushers in the NTMA been in the real world? Have they ever worked in a market of any type?

    They couldn't run a bath or organise a party in a brothel or a knees up in a brewery. And here they are entrusted with the world's biggest property portfolio. You couldn't script it.
    “The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.” - Friedrich A. Hayek

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    Politics.ie Member Boy M5's Avatar
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    In fairness NTMA has a deservedly excellent reputation & Somers chose his staff on merit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boy M5 View Post
    In yesterday's FT Jonathan Guthrie (who writes on the UK Midlands and enterprise) has a rather worrying piece about a NAMA funded property in Wolverhampton. In short NAMA valued a property at £4 M, the administrator (UK examiner) of the failed developer managed to get an offer of £11M. It apparently took NAMA days to respond on a simple decision with a beneficial outcome for Irish taxpayers. The FT hack implies it doesn't have a clue.

    FT.com / Comment / Op-Ed Columnists - Art for art

    When you are trying to create value from distressed assets speed is crucial - its like any financial market.

    If NAMA can't respond quickly to a simple solution someone else has created, what hope is there?

    It is possible that perhaps NAMA saw the potential of a better outcome? However, they have to work closely with the insolvency practioners & know exactly what is going on.

    Is it perhaps that the same economically iliterate & apparently venal supposed bankers & property consultants who contributed greatly into getting us into this mess are now engaged in NAMA and are again not competent for their new roles? Or is it that NAMA does not have the required culture & infrastructure for its critical role?

    Has anyone knowledge of how well NAMA is run & managed? Does anyone have 1st hand experience of working with NAMA?
    it is alleged that a certain number of people employed by NAMA have been let go by property firms/auctioneers

    this does not appear to augur well for its success in my view, however, more importantly the perception of incompetence whether justified or not must not be allowed to take hold in the marketplace

    hopefully i will be proved wrong

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    Politics.ie Member Boy M5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TODevastated View Post
    it is alleged that a certain number of people employed by NAMA have been let go by property firms/auctioneers

    this does not appear to augur well for its success in my view, however, more importantly the perception of incompetence whether justified or not must not be allowed to take hold in the marketplace

    hopefully i will be proved wrong
    So these yahoos with more knowledge of past captains of Foxrock Golf Club & the 0-120 performance of models in the BMW 3 series (rather than the sound principals of valuation of assets) are those hired by NAMA?

    This is akin to in the 1990s if the former Soviet Union republics put experts in theoretical Marxist Leninism in charge of their economic transformation.
    These chancers are economically illiterate, many of them have only worked in a rising market where for so long any fool could make a fortune / be proven right in their professional judgement.

    Our nation's future is partly in their, well manicured, hands.

    Also given the greedy developers, their advisors and their funders (who were also co-investors) were like drunken sailors not only in the way they splashed their cash but also in the varied locations internationally they were active, There is a risk of a) impairing other countries' property markets b) trashing our country's reputation even more, c) losing tax payers greater amounts of €.

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    Politics.ie Member Thac0man's Avatar
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    Property in the Uk aswell as Ireland is in a severe state of flux. That Nama does not have the immediate answers to the questions of what property is worth, or whether it can in future yield a greater return is no suprise. No one has that knowledge to hand.

    I would rather Nama act with due caution when approached to off load property, rather than provide 'steals' for speculators. If Nama bit every time there was an offer, it would be left with nothing but the crap no one wants, while wide boys with an inside line in places like Wolverhampton would be making fortunes off the back of Irish tax payers.

    All this story perhaps proves is that a few wide boys are connected enough to the Financial Times to air their greivance at not being able to pocket a handy few quid. Throughout the boom our media has been gorged with property speculators using their media connections to inflate prices and manipulate the markets to line their own pockets. In a recession those in the know with a connection to the Financial Times would not be more inclined to use the media to lever some advantage for themselves? I think not.

    I have watched throughout the boom even RTEs flagship overseas property program regularly inflate prices in European destinations that I know very well. In some instances known and trusted RTE personalities have convinced, on air, Irish investors to pay at least three times the actual value of overseas property. And now that Nama holds a huge portfolio of the same property, whose interest is being served in claiming they are mishandling it by not foisting it over to speculators? Not the taxpayer who foots the bill for Nama, thats for bloody sure.

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    Politics.ie Member Boy M5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thac0man View Post
    Property in the Uk aswell as Ireland is in a severe state of flux. That Nama does not have the immediate answers to the questions of what property is worth, or whether it can in future yield a greater return is no suprise. No one has that knowledge to hand.

    I would rather Nama act with due caution when approached to off load property, rather than provide 'steals' for speculators. If Nama bit every time there was an offer, it would be left with nothing but the crap no one wants, while wide boys with an inside line in places like Wolverhampton would be making fortunes off the back of Irish tax payers.

    All this story perhaps proves is that a few wide boys are connected enough to the Financial Times to air their greivance at not being able to pocket a handy few quid. Throughout the boom our media has been gorged with property speculators using their media connections to inflate prices and manipulate the markets to line their own pockets. In a recession those in the know with a connection to the Financial Times would not be more inclined to use the media to lever some advantage for themselves? I think not.

    I have watched throughout the boom even RTEs flagship overseas property program regularly inflate prices in European destinations that I know very well. In some instances known and trusted RTE personalities have convinced, on air, Irish investors to pay at least three times the actual value of overseas property. And now that Nama holds a huge portfolio of the same property, whose interest is being served in claiming they are mishandling it by not foisting it over to speculators? Not the taxpayer who foots the bill for Nama, thats for bloody sure.
    That's an excellent post. Except you use the US spelling of Programme
    An administrator under English law must act in the best interests of the company, which of course is often mutually exclusive with the lenders who have to take a capital loss.

    The FT hack Guthrie - he's straight, he's one of the few hacks who actually seems to use shoe leather & he's inquisitive. His pieces often read like a Brendan O'Gorman interview.

    The missing is piece is the size of the loan if its < £11 M then NAMA should be biting their hands off. If not then I can understand their apparent vacillation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boy M5 View Post
    In fairness NTMA has a deservedly excellent reputation & Somers chose his staff on merit.
    Can anyone explain why, if we're to believe this kind of comment, meritorious people would decide to join NTMA at a time when Irish Government borrowing was a backwater?

    I've nothing agin NTMA. I'm sure they are fine. I just feel people are setting themselves up for a fall by giving the place such an exalted status. Twas Irish humour, wet and dry, flung quicklime into Parnell's eye;

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    Its either Corruption or Stupidity

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    Politics.ie Member Boy M5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemi_ View Post
    Can anyone explain why, if we're to believe this kind of comment, meritorious people would decide to join NTMA at a time when Irish Government borrowing was a backwater?

    I've nothing agin NTMA. I'm sure they are fine. I just feel people are setting themselves up for a fall by giving the place such an exalted status. Twas Irish humour, wet and dry, flung quicklime into Parnell's eye;
    It wasn't a backwater, the state like now was reliant on the fiat of the international capital markets, it was the front line. Somers put in place a rigorous selection process & incentivised his team well - they were the best but wanted to be better. Unlike the man who brought Somers back from Parkgate St, they did the state some service.

    An analogy is asking why a young man should join our army & serve in the Ranger Wing when he could follow to the British Army recruitment propoganda Geraldine Kennedy has published with alarming regularity and end up serving in Afghanistan.

    An emailer to La Finucane's show a couple of months back enquired of Somers (who was on her panel) how he felt to see his life's work destroyed?

    La Finucane said "goodness <cough! cough!> what a question. Ok time for the news". When the programme returned she started wittering on about U2 or X Factor or "whatever <cough! cough!> you are having yourself". So we never got to find out Somers' views.

    He deserves a proper interview

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