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Thread: British Govt Shows the Way Over Cuts - We Must Follow

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    Default British Govt Shows the Way Over Cuts - We Must Follow

    Once upon a time, Britain elected Margaret Thatcher. She stated "there is no such thing as society". She generated the deepest divisions Britain had seen in decades, perhaps centuries. She removed controls on the activities of banks and the rest of the financial services industry. Under her guidance the British elite became ever wealthier than the rest.

    In this state the right-wing business people, their journalists and their political puppets loved her. Mary Harney placed us "closer to Boston than Berlin", with the USA having adopted its own version of Thatcherite free-market fundamentalism. We, along the Americans, have generated the deepest divisions our societies have seen in decades. We also removed controls on the activities of the banks and the rest of the financial services industry. Under Bertie and Biffo's guidance the Irish elite became ever wealthier than the rest, as did the elite in the US under Clinton and Bush. That's the normal outcome of pandering to right-wing economists and politicians.

    As a result of all the free-market fundamentalism, the economies of Ireland, the UK and the US are in tatters. And what is the Thatcherite response in Ireland and the UK? Slash away at the ordinary child, woman and man in the street, and protect the rich from the efffects of their own follies.

    Thatcherite free-market doctrine has led us all over the cliff, and still the free-market fundamentalists insist we take more of their medicine, that they are the ones with the answers.

    We appear to have ditched our human critical faculties for those of lemmings.

    The programme of cuts in the UK has led to drooling expectations that we're going to follow our betters in the UK once again. Our own right-wing goons in the business sector, in their media organisations and elsewhere are just chomping at the bit over the prospects of unions, ordinary workers, the sick and the unemployed being crushed mercilessly.

    This is the kind of thing they're dreaming of:

    Spending review 2010: cuts hurt families with children most - Telegraph

    Nice people, eh?

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    Politics.ie Member ocoonassa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onlyasking View Post
    Nice people, eh?
    Quite delightful yes, here is world renowned economist Dr Michael Hudson talking about them. He says they are a kleptocracy.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pwAFohWBL4]YouTube - Six Minutes with the Renegade Economist - Michael Hudson Special...[/ame]

    As you can see from his wiki entry he is highly regarded [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hudson_%28economist%29"]Michael Hudson (economist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    When men such as him are saying such things, that there is a wholesale robbery taking place, well I can't understand why we aren't a little more annoyed than we appear to be.

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    Politics.ie Member roc_'s Avatar
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    I'm not sure that the term 'free-market' should assume the weight of the blame.

    What is really to blame is the symbiosis between big business and government. This has in fact been completely antithetical to the ideals of a free market and free enterprise.

    I would even go as far to say that if a government truly wanted to promote the ideals of a properly free market, then its only involvement in the economic and business world should only be (a) the policing of marketing and other communications by businesses, to ensure that they reflect and aspire towards real truthfulness, and (b) the policing of competitive abuses such as tacit cartels, the awarding of lucrative government contracts to cronies, and other abuses like the comandeering of standards or certifications etc.
    “Words are animals, alive with a will of their own”.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roc_ View Post
    What is really to blame is the symbiosis between big business and government.
    and big Unions.

    The reason the situation was let get so bad was because they had the three way 'partnership'. There was no ideological reasoning behind it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ocoonassa View Post
    Quite delightful yes, here is world renowned economist Dr Michael Hudson talking about them. He says they are a kleptocracy.

    YouTube - Six Minutes with the Renegade Economist - Michael Hudson Special...

    As you can see from his wiki entry he is highly regarded Michael Hudson (economist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    When men such as him are saying such things, that there is a wholesale robbery taking place, well I can't understand why we aren't a little more annoyed than we appear to be.
    Good contribution. I'm mystified myself, as were foreign correspondents quoted on the RTE news at one on Sunday. In fact, foreign correspondents are gobsmacked by our sheep-like refusal to question the medicine being prescribed by the very idiots that cheered on the economic insanity of the past decade and a half.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onlyasking View Post
    Good contribution. I'm mystified myself, as were foreign correspondents quoted on the RTE news at one on Sunday. In fact, foreign correspondents are gobsmacked by our sheep-like refusal to question the medicine being prescribed by the very idiots that cheered on the economic insanity of the past decade and a half.
    We can imitate the British and be as austere as we like, but our Bank disaster may have pushed us over the cliff, as far as "impressing the markets" goes. No matter how many of our own people we put on the breadline, "the markets" have got our number, and are not fooled.

    But there are those who do not want to waste this golden opportunity to advance their ideological agenda---slashing wages and SW even if it kills the patient. (the same people who tell us we cannot raise taxes for that very reason)

    Cliches circulate---in the print media, on Frontline, on Liveline, on P.ie--and eventually harden into orthodoxy, the better to serve the "slash and burn" agenda. (Is it because of our Catholic past that we so easily learn off our Catechism and parrot the required truisms?)

    This crash has been underpinned by enabling cliches---"NAMA is the only game in town" "No one ever taxed their way out of a recession" etc.
    And the latest one: "Most people want the IMF to come in to make the hard decisions"
    Posters on P.ie are quoting surveys, vox pop interviewees are on message: "We need to get it over with. I would be relieved if the IMF came in and made the hard decisions"
    You can bet those who want the IMF to make "the hard decisions" are assuming that the "hard decisions" will not effect them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gatsbygirl20 View Post
    We can imitate the British and be as austere as we like, but our Bank disaster may have pushed us over the cliff, as far as "impressing the markets" goes. No matter how many of our own people we put on the breadline, "the markets" have got our number, and are not fooled.

    But there are those who do not want to waste this golden opportunity to advance their ideological agenda---slashing wages and SW even if it kills the patient. (the same people who tell us we cannot raise taxes for that very reason)

    Cliches circulate---in the print media, on Frontline, on Liveline, on P.ie--and eventually harden into orthodoxy, the better to serve the "slash and burn" agenda. (Is it because of our Catholic past that we so easily learn off our Catechism and parrot the required truisms?)

    This crash has been underpinned by enabling cliches---"NAMA is the only game in town" "No one ever taxed their way out of a recession" etc.
    And the latest one: "Most people want the IMF to come in to make the hard decisions"
    Posters on P.ie are quoting surveys, vox pop interviewees are on message: "We need to get it over with. I would be relieved if the IMF came in and made the hard decisions"
    You can bet those who want the IMF to make "the hard decisions" are assuming that the "hard decisions" will not effect them.
    You forgot " the recovery will be export led ". Foreign companies exporting chemicals and drugs for profits that will be expatriated give or take 12.5% or 2%.

    How come Kerrygold butter is cheaper in a Tescos in Britain than it is in a Tescos in Kerry?

    How come the Irish Independent is cheaper in Belfast than it is in Dublin?

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    Politics.ie Member Panopticon's Avatar
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    Weren't the British so prosperous in the 70s, when the unions refused to bury the dead because they didn't get 25% pay increases.

    Weren't we so prosperous in the 80s, when our main export was intelligent young people.

    Lefties, cop on and use statistics instead of left-wing buzzwords. Otherwise, you are guilty of wanting us to go back to that world, when you had power and the rest of us had little.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Panopticon View Post
    Weren't the British so prosperous in the 70s, when the unions refused to bury the dead because they didn't get 25% pay increases.
    Seeing as you're wearing your Thatcherite badge proudly, I presume you agree with Thatcher that "there is no such thing as society". Clearly, you agree with Thatcherite doctrine, with its insistence on maximum de-regulation of the business activities of the elite, as expressed by the banking and financial services sector. You have ignored entirely the disastrous consequences of the imposition of free-market ideologies. What exactly is your problem with meeting the arguments of "lefties" in full, instead of chucking a couple of out-of-date hand-grenades in and then running off.

    The Brits had far lower unemployment in the 70s than they did under Thatcher. Social inequality was far less than it is now. British society was far less violent than it is now. Who benefited from the yuppie excesses, which you may remember resulted in a crash in the early 90s.

    Weren't we so prosperous in the 80s, when our main export was intelligent young people.
    Weren't "so prosperous in the 80s" as when? As we are now?

    As for not wishing to return to "exporting intelligent young people" as we did during the 80s, are you even awake? Can you not see the bottom of the economic pit rushing up to hit you in the face? We are rushing to our doom like lemmings, and young people, who will be subject to some of the greatest pressures as a result of our right-wing madness, will be leaving in their thousands.

    I'm getting ready to wave goodbye to my kids in the next few years. And their leaving us is not to do with not having good qualifications. My son attends a fairly rough state school, but is doing higher level subjects in next year's Leaving Cert with the exception of one subject. He's also one of the minority of kids in the state who do Applied Maths. He's exactly the kind of kid we need.

    Do you know what? Much as it will break my heart, I love my kids too much to force them to spend the rest of their lives living in a corrupt, squalid little state, run by the rich for the rich. A state that has seen in the last couple of years the most intense campaign of hate ever seen in the state's history, a campaign directed by very highly paid people in the business sector and in its media entities against teachers, nurses, clerical officers and the rest of the public service. My kids will find it almost impossible to find another society which has let loose to the same degree naked greed and its companion, pure contempt, not to mention rank stupidity.

    I deeply regret returning to this poxy remnant of a society in 1995, to live amongst so many mercenary serfs, who'll champion the rich while crushing their own.

    Lefties, cop on and use statistics instead of left-wing buzzwords.
    Cop on? Seeing as the right-wing business forces and their media and political puppets led us over the edge of the abyss, I'd advise you to consider whether or not you're going to embarrass yourself before hitting the submit button.

    As for statistics, show me the statistics that back up your position that financial deregulation has been good for Ireland.

    Otherwise, you are guilty of wanting us to go back to that world, when you had power and the rest of us had little.
    When "lefties had the power"? When did "lefties" ever have the power in Ireland. When did the rich elite ever release their grip on the levers of power?

    Another reminder of why this state has been brought to its knees. Cheers, but it's not as if we haven't got enough reminders of that already.

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    Politics.ie Member bonkers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onlyasking View Post
    Seeing as you're wearing your Thatcherite badge proudly, I presume you agree with Thatcher that "there is no such thing as society". Clearly, you agree with Thatcherite doctrine, with its insistence on maximum de-regulation of the business activities of the elite, as expressed by the banking and financial services sector. You have ignored entirely the disastrous consequences of the imposition of free-market ideologies. What exactly is your problem with meeting the arguments of "lefties" in full, instead of chucking a couple of out-of-date hand-grenades in and then running off.

    The Brits had far lower unemployment in the 70s than they did under Thatcher. Social inequality was far less than it is now. British society was far less violent than it is now. Who benefited from the yuppie excesses, which you may remember resulted in a crash in the early 90s.



    Weren't "so prosperous in the 80s" as when? As we are now?

    As for not wishing to return to "exporting intelligent young people" as we did during the 80s, are you even awake? Can you not see the bottom of the economic pit rushing up to hit you in the face? We are rushing to our doom like lemmings, and young people, who will be subject to some of the greatest pressures as a result of our right-wing madness, will be leaving in their thousands.

    I'm getting ready to wave goodbye to my kids in the next few years. And their leaving us is not to do with not having good qualifications. My son attends a fairly rough state school, but is doing higher level subjects in next year's Leaving Cert with the exception of one subject. He's also one of the minority of kids in the state who do Applied Maths. He's exactly the kind of kid we need.

    Do you know what? Much as it will break my heart, I love my kids too much to force them to spend the rest of their lives living in a corrupt, squalid little state, run by the rich for the rich. A state that has seen in the last couple of years the most intense campaign of hate ever seen in the state's history, a campaign directed by very highly paid people in the business sector and in its media entities against teachers, nurses, clerical officers and the rest of the public service. My kids will find it almost impossible to find another society which has let loose to the same degree naked greed and its companion, pure contempt, not to mention rank stupidity.

    I deeply regret returning to this poxy remnant of a society in 1995, to live amongst so many mercenary serfs, who'll champion the rich while crushing their own.



    Cop on? Seeing as the right-wing business forces and their media and political puppets led us over the edge of the abyss, I'd advise you to consider whether or not you're going to embarrass yourself before hitting the submit button.

    As for statistics, show me the statistics that back up your position that financial deregulation has been good for Ireland.



    When "lefties had the power"? When did "lefties" ever have the power in Ireland. When did the rich elite ever release their grip on the levers of power?

    Another reminder of why this state has been brought to its knees. Cheers, but it's not as if we haven't got enough reminders of that already.
    excellent post

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