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Thread: Property tax changeover

  1. #1
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    Default Property tax changeover

    Just as a suggestion, on the assumption that SOME sort of property tax is coming in, if we were to have a two tier property tax scenario.

    What I suggest is

    1) Starting off, every house in the country pays say, 200 a year, which wouldn't be as bad as people are expecting.

    2) However, when a house is sold, Stamp duty is either not charged or it is minimal, but that house then switches over to the new system of a higher property tax e.g 800-1000 a year (or higher depending on the house).

    The advantages are

    1) the concerns of people who have paid large amounts in Stamp Duty are in someway mitigated.

    2) We would be moving away from once off transaction taxes.

    3) As we are selling so few houses anyway, this is the perfect time to do this.

    4) Surely it would find favour with the EU who have long been pressing for us to charge a property tax.

    5) Perhaps it might help movement in the Property Sales as people wouldn't be faced with a big up front Stamp Duty payment.

    Perhaps I have the amounts wrong but it's the general idea that I'm getting at.

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    Although I agree with much of what you are saying € 200 a year until a property sells is a non runner. Many houses will not sell for years and the tax revenue is badly needed. A phased scheme maybe the way to go, brought in over a 5 year period. The commission on taxation have already made recommendations to make allowances for people who have paid large lump sums of stamp duty in the last few years.

    I can't understand why the goverment is taking so long to signal their intentions in this area, it's going to have to happen. Why should those that need to move house continue to get screwed. We need a more equitable property tax now.
    Last edited by Dunlin3; 21st October 2010 at 02:27 PM.

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    My own opinion is that a property tax where individuals have to make a return themselves will become an easy target for people to vent their anger at the present government.

    It is easier for people to withhold this payment in a sort of protest to force the Government to give into an election. Taxes on transactions; pay etc are much easier to generate collect. The property tax will I believe become the focus for the end of this current Government.

    Take one example of a couple both now unemployed with a few small children and in negative equity - placing the burden of a property tax on them will not wash!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Decadance View Post
    Take one example of a couple both now unemployed with a few small children and in negative equity - placing the burden of a property tax on them will not wash!
    The commission on taxation have already stated that there should be exceptions for those on low incomes. There are plenty that can afford to pay and there are plenty that should be paying a property tax who are not paying any income tax.

    I'd also like to add that there are plenty of the generation who have well and truely screwed this country who paid very little stamp duty/property tax compared to those who have puchased some homes in the last few years as they purchased their family homes so long ago. Under the current system they will continue to pay nothing going forward. It's no coincidence why they are dragging their heels on this as they will have to pay also.
    Last edited by Dunlin3; 21st October 2010 at 11:45 AM.

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    Residential property tax should not exceed the rental property tax which currently stands at 200 euro! Will be interesting too see how
    Much they raise the rental prop tax
    The true "front line workers" are the private sector paye employees who are first to take the bullet. Cannon fodder for their state and the public sector.

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    "I can't can't understand why the goverment is taking so long to signal their intentions in this area, it's going to have to happen".

    Maybe those in government currently have friends with lots of properties and these would be people that would be hit in a big way by the property tax. Also maybe a lot of people that vote for them have a number of properties. It would put me off bringing it in for as long as possible.

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    If we are to have a property tax the only fair way to do it is on the basis of house value. Hitting an isolated cottage for the same tax as the most expensive houses in the country just compounds the inequalities in the tax system

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    Quote Originally Posted by EconomicCrashDummy View Post
    "I can't can't understand why the goverment is taking so long to signal their intentions in this area, it's going to have to happen".

    Maybe those in government currently have friends with lots of properties and these would be people that would be hit in a big way by the property tax. Also maybe a lot of people that vote for them have a number of properties. It would put me off bringing it in for as long as possible.
    There's only about 20 to 25% of die hard FFs that are going to vote for them anyway. They're well a truely f**ked so they may as well get on and do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Biffo View Post
    If we are to have a property tax the only fair way to do it is on the basis of house value. Hitting an isolated cottage for the same tax as the most expensive houses in the country just compounds the inequalities in the tax system

    The following problems then occur;


    • You effectively tax improvements as these increase value.


    • You have to arrive at estimated values and therefore need a whole new level of administration.


    • Someone on low income say a person who has retired and continuing to live in the house in which they brought up their families is then perhaps paying more in tax that a household with 4 working adults.


    • As the values in an area increase the tax increases but your income may not. This is particularly important in relation to business property and can have the effect of forcing out local business.


    That is just a start. I think a fairer measure is taxing on ability to pay.

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    Default Re: Property tax changeover

    Independent Economist Ronan Lyons proposes a Land value tax rather than an explicit property tax. Posted on his blog from his taxation debate last night: How can Ireland tax and grow: a video discussion | Ronan Lyons
    2nd Video on Property Tax.

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