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Thread: Sinn Féin V Labour

  1. #1
    Politics.ie Member SinnShane's Avatar
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    Default Sinn Féin V Labour

    It is clear at this stage that Sinn Féin is practically in a zero sum fight with Labour come the general election. They will be competing with us for the last seat all over the place and we both can’t win.
    A lot of friends see Sinn Féin as basically a Republican version of the Labour Party and of marginal relevance to them. It doesn’t matter that the perception is fed by a lazy media and a three-party conspiracy to stifle us - we have to overcome it. And with an election fast approaching we need to have the reasons for voting Sinn Féin instead of Labour to hand.
    My own view is that, as pointed out here previously somewhere, Eamon Gilmore is essentially the same as Bertie Ahern - mediocre intellect, lots of media appearances and spin, all things to everyone while dodging big decisions. They bang on about FF’s style and then they go and mimic it shamelessly. Ivan Yeats summed him on the radio one morning saying his style was more ‘followership than leadership’.
    And where he lacks a hard line you can bet your last cent that this will be exploited by Enda Kenny in government.
    The hope is that in the course of an election campaign the bluffing will catch up with him - the same media that hate us will do us a favour by exposing Gilmore’s guff. When the time comes we must be ready-in-waiting with concrete answers to all the issues that he ducks.
    Also, for our own members and canvassers, we’re going to need to spell out why Gilmore is a spoofer and why they’re better off with Sinn Féin.
    Here is a sample of some of the main differences between them and us.

    Closing the gap, 2014 V 2016
    Labour (along with FF, FG and the Greens) is looking to close the gap in the public finances in three years. Sinn Féin believe such rough treatment would only serve to kill an already delicate patient and urge phasing out the balance over a longer timescale. The prospective FG/Labour coalition have also indicated that they want to front-load the cuts to the tune of €6 billion at the first opportunity. Sinn Féin is certain such a blunt attack on the economy would move us from recession territory to depression.

    Capital Spending
    Labour has indicated their wish to either cancel or delay Metro North and other such badly needed infrastructural projects. They want one third of the cuts that they deem necessary to be made from the capital budget. Sinn Féin look at it as an opportunity to put thousands of unemployed trades people back to work at a knock down cost to the state.

    Water Charges
    After the customary flip-flopping Labour now seem to be on message with the government and FG re water charges. Sinn Féin say ‘no to water charges’ and suggest they start by fixing the bloody pipes! They point also to the fact that we already pay for water via general taxation and have separate plans to increase the tax take from those who are able to pay.

    Education and Health
    It is difficult to pin down exactly where Labour stand in these areas as Gilmore is evasive by nature (Bertie Mark II) and their web-site is vague. On the other hand Sinn Féin opposes third level fees and rejects that cuts to front-line health-care are necessary. Unlike Labour’s, the Sinn Féin web-site is laid out clearly under these areas. They also propose a far greater sharing of health and education facilities with the north.

    Lisbon
    Okay the campaign is over but it provides a telling insight into the differences between the two parties. One year on from the passing of the re-run of the Treaty and the Labour promise that a ‘Yes’ vote would deliver ‘jobs and investment’ has been exposed for the sham it was. They are ganging up again this week to slash the deficit by 2014 at the behest of the European Commission. Sinn Féin naturally smell the bullsh!t by now.

    NI
    Despite Gilmore’s membership of Official Sinn Féin there hasn’t been a peep out of him on the national question in years. On everything else he sounds a bit shifty. On this, he’s strangely silent. Sinn Féin remain committed to unfinished business and is the only party with the strategy and policies for achieving unity and independence.

    Please feel free to add to the list or develop these.

    **Let’s ignore the trolls on this one lads**
    Last edited by SinnShane; 17th October 2010 at 10:47 PM.

  2. #2

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    Give it no more than ten years before a large chunk of PSF joins Labour.

    Would certainly makes sense in the North as well.

    The Left of the SDLP could then join with them.

    Modern Irish Republicans cease to be when the gun is taken out the equation.

    Those who style themselves "left of center" in PSF will go home to the Labour Party.
    Who exactly are the best marching band in the World

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinnShane View Post
    It is clear at this stage that Sinn Féin is practically in a zero sum fight with Labour come the general election. They will be competing with us for the last seat all over the place and we both can’t win.
    A lot of friends see Sinn Féin as basically a Republican version of the Labour Party and of marginal relevance to them. It doesn’t matter that the perception is fed by a lazy media and a three-party conspiracy to stifle us - we have to overcome it. And with an election fast approaching we need to have the reasons for voting Sinn Féin instead of Labour to hand.
    My own view is that, as pointed out here previously somewhere, Eamon Gilmore is essentially the same as Bertie Ahern - mediocre intellect, lots of media appearances and spin, all things to everyone while dodging big decisions. They bang on about FF’s style and then they go and mimic it shamelessly. Ivan Yeats summed him on the radio one morning saying his style was more ‘followership than leadership’.
    And where he lacks a hard line you can bet your last cent that this will be exploited by Enda Kenny in government.
    The hope is that in the course of an election campaign the bluffing will catch up with him - the same media that hate us will do us a favour by exposing Gilmore’s guff. When the time comes we must be ready-in-waiting with concrete answers to all the issues that he ducks.
    Also, for our own members and canvassers, we’re going to need to spell out why Gilmore is a spoofer and why they’re better off with Sinn Féin.
    Here is a sample of some of the main differences between them and us.

    Closing the gap, 2014 V 2016
    Labour (along with FF, FG and the Greens) is looking to close the gap in the public finances in three years. Sinn Féin believe such rough treatment would only serve to kill an already delicate patient and urge phasing out the balance over a longer timescale. The prospective FG/Labour coalition have also indicated that they want to front-load the cuts to the tune of €6 billion at the first opportunity. Sinn Féin is certain such a blunt attack on the economy would move us from recession territory to depression.

    Capital Spending
    Labour has indicated their wish to either cancel or delay Metro North and other such badly needed infrastructural projects. They want one third of the cuts that they deem necessary to be made from the capital budget. Sinn Féin look at it as an opportunity to put thousands of unemployed trades people back to work at a knock down cost to the state.

    Water Charges
    After the customary flip-flopping Labour now seem to be on message with the government and FG re water charges. Sinn Féin say ‘no to water charges’ and suggest they start by fixing the bloody pipes! They point also to the fact that we already pay for water via general taxation and have separate plans to increase the tax take from those who are able to pay.

    Education and Health
    It is difficult to pin down exactly where Labour stand in these areas as Gilmore is evasive by nature (Bertie Mark II) and their web-site is vague. On the other hand Sinn Féin opposes third level fees and rejects that cuts to front-line health-care are necessary. Unlike Labour’s, the Sinn Féin web-site is laid out clearly under these areas. They also propose a far greater sharing of health and education facilities with the north.

    Lisbon
    Okay the campaign is over but it provides a telling insight into the differences between the two parties. One year on from the passing of the re-run of the Treaty and the Labour promise that a ‘Yes’ vote would deliver ‘jobs and investment’ has been exposed for the sham it was. They are ganging up again this week to slash the deficit by 2014 at the behest of the European Commission. Sinn Féin naturally smell the bullsh!t by now.

    NI
    Despite Gilmore’s membership of Official Sinn Féin there hasn’t been a peep out of him on the national question in years. On everything else he sounds a bit shifty. On this, he’s strangely silent. Sinn Féin remain committed to unfinished business and is the only party with the strategy and policies for achieving unity and independence.

    Please feel free to add to the list or develop these.

    **Let’s ignore the trolls on this one lads**

    Good post...

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by SinnShane View Post
    It is clear at this stage that Sinn Féin is practically in a zero sum fight with Labour come the general election. They will be competing with us for the last seat all over the place and we both can’t win.
    you seem to forget the other leftists, PBP, the socialists, etc, these people will also be competing with you for the "left" seats that are available, and whilst perhaps not on a national basis could hurt you in some key battlegrounds


    Quote Originally Posted by SinnShane View Post
    My own view is that, as pointed out here previously somewhere, Eamon Gilmore is essentially the same as Bertie Ahern - mediocre intellect, lots of media appearances and spin, all things to everyone while dodging big decisions.


    Also, for our own members and canvassers, we’re going to need to spell out why Gilmore is a spoofer and why they’re better off with Sinn Féin.
    whilst i happen to agree with you on Gilmore, what does SF have to offer in the form of leadership ?, C O'C ?? MLM (can she even get elected??), there seems to be as much a dearth of leadership in SF as there is in Labour

    on policies its good to see the parties disagreeing at this stage as that can only stimulate debate, but one thing you will need to do is provide costed alternatives that are seen to be credible, simply opposing for the sake of it is pointless and the very thing many find so irritating about Labour and Gilmore at present

  5. #5
    Politics.ie Member Conrad's Avatar
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    If Sinn Fein were really left, they would recognise that republicanism died in 1998 and that republicanism was effectively dead. I do realise how difficult it would be for people who dedicated their life to the struggle to accept this, but its the inconvinient truth post GFA. Sinn Feins lack of merging with the other left/center left parties over the next few years would only be on historical basis, rejecting pragmatic leftism altogether.

    The "northern question" has been answered, only real solidarity with the rest of the left could save sinn feins credability and stop them becoming a nationalist party. Only when 51% of northern ireland decides they want to be part of a united ireland will there be a united ireland. Even then, I fail to see how such a policy could be the prime objective of a genuine left party as it would only suggest they are in favour of fighting a British capitalist state and not an Irish/European/American/any other capitalist state.

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    Politics.ie Member Hooch's Avatar
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    Capital Spending
    Labour has indicated their wish to either cancel or delay Metro North and other such badly needed infrastructural projects. They want one third of the cuts that they deem necessary to be made from the capital budget. Sinn Féin look at it as an opportunity to put thousands of unemployed trades people back to work at a knock down cost to the state.
    There have been plenty of objections to Metro North from business leaders and Gilmore said he'd bring some projects forward and push others back, where did he mention canceling any?


    Education and Health
    It is difficult to pin down exactly where Labour stand in these areas as Gilmore is evasive by nature (Bertie Mark II) and their web-site is vague. On the other hand Sinn Féin opposes third level fees and rejects that cuts to front-line health-care are necessary. Unlike Labour’s, the Sinn Féin web-site is laid out clearly under these areas. They also propose a far greater sharing of health and education facilities with the north.
    Quinn's document is as comprehensive as SF's on the matter.

    Water Charges
    After the customary flip-flopping Labour now seem to be on message with the government and FG re water charges. Sinn Féin say ‘no to water charges’ and suggest they start by fixing the bloody pipes! They point also to the fact that we already pay for water via general taxation and have separate plans to increase the tax take from those who are able to pay.
    Water charges are just an excuse to come up with more revenue, it has sweet FA to do with the actual system.

    The Lisbon thing is a red herring, both sides shamelessly lied through their teeth during that referendum.

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    Labour are nothing more than the STickies without policies. I will vote
    Down the ticket to exclude them.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldira1 View Post
    Labour are nothing more than the STickies without policies. I will vote
    Down the ticket to exclude them.
    well that's the Gilmore Gale finished then !

    Still, good to know that FF can depend on you!

  9. #9
    RepublicanSocialist1798
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    Quote Originally Posted by disgruntledcitizen View Post
    you seem to forget the other leftists, PBP, the socialists, etc, these people will also be competing with you for the "left" seats that are available, and whilst perhaps not on a national basis could hurt you in some key battlegrounds
    PBP and Socialist Party support is fairly localised (for all their respective talk). In DSC PBP are battling Aengus but I'd put money that they'll either run Brid Smith (SWP member) on her own or run both her and Joan Collins (not an SWP member). Collins, if she ran on her own, would probably take the seat rather than Smith on her own. Running both would be foolish. There would be a good number of votes that would leak to Labour and SF to a lesser degree which would help O'Snodaigh.
    In Cork North Central both Jonathan O'Brien or Mick Barry could take a seat instead of the second Labour candidate. I'd go for O'Brien ahead of Barry given that a) there is virtually zero SP support in Blarney and the other wards bar CNC in Cork City Council b)Barry's vote is really based in his own ward and c) Dave McCarthy an independent councillor from O'Briens ward wont be running in the next general election. He ran in 2007 and got 2,500 first preferences. The bulk of those votes will probably be split between Labour and O'Brien.
    Last edited by RepublicanSocialist1798; 18th October 2010 at 12:36 AM.

  10. #10
    Politics.ie Member Red_93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinnShane View Post
    It is clear at this stage that Sinn Féin is practically in a zero sum fight with Labour come the general election. They will be competing with us for the last seat all over the place and we both can’t win.
    A lot of friends see Sinn Féin as basically a Republican version of the Labour Party and of marginal relevance to them. It doesn’t matter that the perception is fed by a lazy media and a three-party conspiracy to stifle us - we have to overcome it. And with an election fast approaching we need to have the reasons for voting Sinn Féin instead of Labour to hand.
    My own view is that, as pointed out here previously somewhere, Eamon Gilmore is essentially the same as Bertie Ahern - mediocre intellect, lots of media appearances and spin, all things to everyone while dodging big decisions. They bang on about FF’s style and then they go and mimic it shamelessly. Ivan Yeats summed him on the radio one morning saying his style was more ‘followership than leadership’.
    And where he lacks a hard line you can bet your last cent that this will be exploited by Enda Kenny in government.
    The hope is that in the course of an election campaign the bluffing will catch up with him - the same media that hate us will do us a favour by exposing Gilmore’s guff. When the time comes we must be ready-in-waiting with concrete answers to all the issues that he ducks.
    Also, for our own members and canvassers, we’re going to need to spell out why Gilmore is a spoofer and why they’re better off with Sinn Féin.
    Here is a sample of some of the main differences between them and us.
    Of course there are differences, if there weren't, they'd be the same party.
    Closing the gap, 2014 V 2016
    Labour (along with FF, FG and the Greens) is looking to close the gap in the public finances in three years. Sinn Féin believe such rough treatment would only serve to kill an already delicate patient and urge phasing out the balance over a longer timescale.
    So Girry tells the experts they're wrong and he's right even if they have "rights".
    The prospective FG/Labour coalition have also indicated that they want to front-load the cuts to the tune of €6 billion at the first opportunity. Sinn Féin is certain such a blunt attack on the economy would move us from recession territory to depression.
    Which labour politician have you heard indicate this?
    Capital Spending
    Labour has indicated their wish to either cancel or delay Metro North and other such badly needed infrastructural projects. They want one third of the cuts that they deem necessary to be made from the capital budget. Sinn Féin look at it as an opportunity to put thousands of unemployed trades people back to work at a knock down cost to the state.
    Something has to give, we cannot afford this metro. It is not urgently needed and will benefit only a small % of the population of this country.
    Water Charges
    After the customary flip-flopping Labour now seem to be on message with the government and FG re water charges. Sinn Féin say ‘no to water charges’ and suggest they start by fixing the bloody pipes! They point also to the fact that we already pay for water via general taxation and have separate plans to increase the tax take from those who are able to pay.
    Labour has also proposed levying tax on those best able to pay, but free water is basically the council paying for part of your food, and what you use to clean yourself. Should they pay for your bread too, or your shampoo?
    Education and Health
    It is difficult to pin down exactly where Labour stand in these areas as Gilmore is evasive by nature (Bertie Mark II) and their web-site is vague. On the other hand Sinn Féin opposes third level fees and rejects that cuts to front-line health-care are necessary. Unlike Labour’s, the Sinn Féin web-site is laid out clearly under these areas. They also propose a far greater sharing of health and education facilities with the north.
    Anyone who knows anything about Irish politics knows that labour have been vehemently opposed to 3rd level fees for the past 2 decades having abolished them under Niamh Breathnach as Education Minister in 1995, and were the first Irish party to put forward a proposal for universal healthcare almost a decade ago.
    Lisbon
    Okay the campaign is over but it provides a telling insight into the differences between the two parties. One year on from the passing of the re-run of the Treaty and the Labour promise that a ‘Yes’ vote would deliver ‘jobs and investment’ has been exposed for the sham it was. They are ganging up again this week to slash the deficit by 2014 at the behest of the European Commission. Sinn Féin naturally smell the bullsh!t by now.
    Bit old no? Irrelevant? Personally I have not seen any change to my life or to Irish politics, economy or society - positive or negative, because of Lisbon.
    NI
    Despite Gilmore’s membership of Official Sinn Féin there hasn’t been a peep out of him on the national question in years. On everything else he sounds a bit shifty. On this, he’s strangely silent. Sinn Féin remain committed to unfinished business and is the only party with the strategy and policies for achieving unity and independence.
    I'm not sure there's much to discuss here. We all know that a referendum is required on both sides of the border under the GFA, and for all SF's huffing and puffing on the issue, they are rather unlikely to blow the house down any time soon. This won't be a burning issue at the next GE.
    Please feel free to add to the list or develop these.

    **Let’s ignore the trolls on this one lads**
    I do hope I'm not trolling?

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