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Thread: A new constitution or radical changes to the existing one ?

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    Politics.ie Member SlabMurphy's Avatar
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    Default A new constitution or radical changes to the existing one ?

    Clearly Ireland needs totally new structures to run the country. The Dail, the senior Civil service and semi states and of course the bankers have turned the country into a waste land. But what is the whole focus at the moment ? The budget for the next 4 years. As if to say if we get that right lads and appease the international financial community, then it's carry on as usual without the fundamental and radical way this country is ran.

    Now if we have a FG/Labour govt and they change some laws etc well and good for the time being. But FF will sooner or later be back, 4/8 years, and they can then set about tailoring the Dail law's to facilitate corruption, cronyism and incompetence again. Example the Freedom of Information and Ethics in Public Office Acts passed during the FG/Labour coalition which were watered to make meaningless by the lowlfie criminals of FF.

    Therefore what I am saying is, surely their will have to be constitutional changes to make sure that acts like these and others such as regulation of the banks, corporate crime etc will have to be tied into the constitution so that future scumbags of FF govt's cannot get in and in stealth fashion, obliterate their powers so they and their rich cronies can get on with the task of robbing and destroying the country ?

    So anyway, here are some ideas from Constantin Gurdgiev regarding fundamantal changes that could be incorporated regarding Governance, Banking etc

    True Economics: Economics 27/8/10: Manifesto I (?)

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    Default New constitution or radical change

    There is a lot of national self hatred spouted about our constitution.

    Many commentators and contributors make very illinformed comments about it.

    Of course a 73 year old document will from time to time need to be ammended in places.

    However we shouldnt throw out the baby with the bath water.
    John in Cork ya boy ya

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    Politics.ie Member TradCat's Avatar
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    It would be very hard to pass a new one as we'd all take exception to something. Perhaps we should try political reform first as our major political problems are caused by the failings of the system.

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    Politics.ie Member Casualbets's Avatar
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    SlabMurphy's post is a bit rambling given that he poses a question in the title which he doesn't actually address in his post...

    Any changes should be made by means of individual amendments to the existing constitution, so that they can be considered separately on their own merits.

    Trying to get a new constitution passed would be a colossal waste of time - addressing issues such as governance, regulation and systematic reform through constitutional changes, but these would be far better processed through individual amendments to the current constitution where they would stand a reasonable chance of (a) all party concensus and (b) actually being passed.

    Trying to embody governance, regulation and systematic reform in the constitution by trying to pass a new constitution will serve to ensure that the debate won't be about
    governance, regulation and systematic reform but about abortion and a hundred and one other issues which mightn't be deemed particularly relevant but which would serve to antagonise particular groups of voters. In other words, it would be a waste of time and effort and serve merely to delay needed reform.

    The golden rule of Constitutional referenda is that if someone 90% agrees with a proposal, and 10% disagrees with it - in other words if they have doubts - they vote against it. Therefore, keep it simple. A new constitution is the antithesis of simplicity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlabMurphy View Post
    Clearly Ireland needs totally new structures to run the country. The Dail, the senior Civil service and semi states and of course the bankers have turned the country into a waste land. But what is the whole focus at the moment ? The budget for the next 4 years. As if to say if we get that right lads and appease the international financial community, then it's carry on as usual without the fundamental and radical way this country is ran.

    Now if we have a FG/Labour govt and they change some laws etc well and good for the time being. But FF will sooner or later be back, 4/8 years, and they can then set about tailoring the Dail law's to facilitate corruption, cronyism and incompetence again. Example the Freedom of Information and Ethics in Public Office Acts passed during the FG/Labour coalition which were watered to make meaningless by the lowlfie criminals of FF.

    Therefore what I am saying is, surely their will have to be constitutional changes to make sure that acts like these and others such as regulation of the banks, corporate crime etc will have to be tied into the constitution so that future scumbags of FF govt's cannot get in and in stealth fashion, obliterate their powers so they and their rich cronies can get on with the task of robbing and destroying the country ?

    So anyway, here are some ideas from Constantin Gurdgiev regarding fundamantal changes that could be incorporated regarding Governance, Banking etc

    True Economics: Economics 27/8/10: Manifesto I (?)
    I blame the references to God. Clearly that is intrinsically related to much of our problems. That's what we should be talking about. References to the nation should be taken out aswell. They contribute towards the "nationalist fog" that is so intrinsic to much of our problems. Maybe some form of apology should be included aswell.
    Last edited by Fr. Hank Tree; 17th October 2010 at 05:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cropbeye View Post
    There is a lot of national self hatred spouted about our constitution.

    Many commentators and contributors make very illinformed comments about it.

    Of course a 73 year old document will from time to time need to be ammended in places.

    However we shouldnt throw out the baby with the bath water.


    I'd wager that most people calling for a new Constitution have never even read the present one.

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    Politics.ie Member ne0ica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cropbeye View Post
    There is a lot of national self hatred spouted about our constitution.

    Many commentators and contributors make very illinformed comments about it.

    Of course a 73 year old document will from time to time need to be ammended in places.

    However we shouldnt throw out the baby with the bath water.
    Agree. Too often the Left seeks simple solutions. How often have we been told by liberal commentators that by simply banny alcohol commercials we would stop binge drinking. We need a damatic reform of our electoral system first. The current PR system left behing by the Brits has produced a system where TD's are ultra competitative with eachother, and have become glorified social workers. Where most TD's inherit their fathers or uncle seat.

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    Politics.ie Member ne0ica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fr. Hank Tree View Post
    I blame the references to God. Clearly that is intrinsically related to much of our problems. That's what we should be talking about. References to the nation should be taken out aswell. They contribute towards the "nationalist fog" that is so intrinsic to much of our problems.
    What are you talking about. Most countries have references to God and country in their constitution. How can you claim either references in our constitution contribute to our current problems. Silly man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ne0ica View Post
    What are you talking about. Most countries have references to God and country in their constitution. How can you claim either references in our constitution contribute to our current problems. Silly man.
    I was taking the mick.

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    Politics.ie Member ne0ica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fr. Hank Tree View Post
    I was taking the mick.
    lol. You be surprised but that would be a sentiment among some here.

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