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Thread: Atheist Ireland making an impact. On Poverty this time.

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    Politics.ie Member nozzferrahhtoo's Avatar
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    Default Atheist Ireland making an impact. On Poverty this time.

    Despite being a very young association the recognition Atheist Ireland has achieved has been very interesting, both on the home and international stages.

    This time on Friday Atheist Ireland became the first Irish philosophical organisation, and the first European atheist advocacy group, to meet with the Presidents of the European Commission, European Parliament and European Council.

    The topic was the EU policy on poverty both inside and outside the EU.

    More information about the meeting and Atheist Ireland submission to it can be found at this link here.

    Of course contrary to the Theist perception that all atheist want to convert people to atheism, the only mention of the word Atheism is the submission was to ensure that atheism NOT be promoted to the poor and vulnerable:

    (e) The Institutions should only fund anti-poverty initiatives that do not promote either religious or atheist metaphysics or moral rules to vulnerable people while providing such services.
    I find this very important as secularism is the main goal, and it is a goal that can be shared regardless of whether you are a member of Atheist Ireland, Humanist Association of Ireland, the catholic church or any religious denomination.

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    Politics.ie Member FutureTaoiseach's Avatar
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    They should field candidates in the GE to counter the agents of theocracy by removing the criminalisation of blasphemy from the Constitution by referendum as part of a Programme for Government or confidence-and-supply agreement with an Irish govt.

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    Politics.ie Member TradCat's Avatar
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    So the point is that the poor should not get any state help via religious organisations. I hope we in Cork will be allowed to keep the SHARE houses that are an example of successful cooperation between a Christian charity and the City Council.

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    Politics.ie Member nozzferrahhtoo's Avatar
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    I would not get that meaning from their statement at all TradCat. I would take from the statement that, to use your sentence "the poor should not get any state help via religious organisations...." that while providing that help use it as an opportunity to promote their metaphysics and ideas.

    In other words, fund all the religious organisations you like so long as they act in a secular manner while dealing with the vulnerable.

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    Politics.ie Member TradCat's Avatar
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    If they acted in a secular manner they wouldn't have started the charity in the first place. It was inspired entirely by Christianity. Hey I know things have changed and I'm willing to get with the program. Let the state pick up the burden and let the religious pray away in the privacy of their own homes. Of course the state is broke so the poor may have to suffer but it's a principle, right? And in fairness they are willing to forego their own efforts to help the poor too. Important to emphasise that in case we don't notice that they have stopped.

    My only concern is that this wouldn't be back-dated and existing facilities knocked down. We know from history that when atheists got political power they have occasionally got carried away.

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    Politics.ie Member Red_93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FutureTaoiseach View Post
    They should field candidates in the GE to counter the agents of theocracy by removing the criminalisation of blasphemy from the Constitution by referendum as part of a Programme for Government or confidence-and-supply agreement with an Irish govt.
    Why don't you run FT?

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    Politics.ie Member FutureTaoiseach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_93 View Post
    Why don't you run FT?
    I don't have the resources to challenge the elites, and my position on the Right of the political-spectrum on other issues would be used by the Big Government, tax-and-spend, Dublin 4, Left-Liberal media to smear the entire movement as 'Thatcherite' despite Thatcher being right on the need for less govt and my opposition to Section 28 and her Northern policy (except the Anglo-Irish Agreement). I see my atheist secularism as part of bringing smaller-govt to Ireland, whereas others view it differently from a Socialist perspective. I'm also not related to the ruling-families and that on its own will lead them to push a campaign of villification like that against Libertas in the full knowledge that the "little people" like me cannot afford to sue them all.

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    Politics.ie Member Red_93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FutureTaoiseach View Post
    I don't have the resources to challenge the elites, and my position on the Right of the political-spectrum on other issues would be used by the Big Government, tax-and-spend, Dublin 4, Left-Liberal media to smear the entire movement as 'Thatcherite' despite Thatcher being right on the need for less govt. I see my atheist secularism as part of bringing smaller-govt to Ireland, whereas others view it differently from a Socialist perspective.
    I will fundraise for you.

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    Politics.ie Member FutureTaoiseach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_93 View Post
    I will fundraise for you.
    But you are a Socialist and there is a risk that Socialists in the movement would splinter away because they don't like cooperation with the Centre-Right and that could weaken the movement, leading to the Dublin 4 media accusing it of "splits", allowing the Establishment to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat by claiming to have the necessary unity of purpose to save the country from the economic precipace over which it leans precariously, shaken by the winds of economic-adversity.

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    Politics.ie Member Red_93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FutureTaoiseach View Post
    But you are a Socialist and there is a risk that Socialists in the movement would splinter away because they don't like cooperation with the Centre-Right and that could weaken the movement, leading to the Dublin 4 media accusing it of "splits", allowing the Establishment to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat by claiming to have the necessary unity of purpose to save the country from the economic precipace over which it leans precariously, shaken by the winds of economic-adversity.
    I would do anything for you ft, socialist or no

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