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Thread: What is the Private Sector : Ireland 2010

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    Default What is the Private Sector : Ireland 2010

    Riddle me this ....

    Just what exactly is the Private Sector in this country at this point in time ?



    Solicitors/Barristers/Accountants and their sundry staff : most would be unemployed or earning far less if it wasn't for the government

    Anybody working in a bank : no comment needed

    GPs / Dentists : would be earning far less if it wasn't for the government

    Developers / Builders / Tradesmen : Have been paid with borrowed money for years and most are now reliant on the government / NAMA / etc

    Farmers : Largely reliant on government / EU subsidies

    Semi State workers : essentially work for the government

    Multinational employees : many owe their jobs to a huge subsidy in the form of our corporate tax rate which is lower than most of our neighbours

    Public Sector / Civil Service workers : paid directly by the government

    Small business owners : surely rely on all the above for their revenue

    Service Sector workers : surely rely on all the above for their wages

    Landlords : no comment needed

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    I've been banging on about this for years. Pseudo-private, I call them. All reliant in one way or another on sucking off the Govt teat. If it's not direct subsidies and inflated contracts from the State directly, it's rigged markets, legalised cartels, barriers to entry, protection of incumbents.

    Now I've spent most of my career in private sector IT SMEs. And most of them genuinely are private sector. Which is why most of them tend to fizzle brightly for a couple of years and then go bust. Most of the bigger established IT firms charge huge amounts for substandard work, because they really aren't interested in private work - their bread and butter and their core revenue comes through the State.

    It's a precarious existence constantly on the edge, and 15 years of it has left me with absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for the entitlement/bailout/pork culture. But I wouldn't swap it for a safe job in some pork merchant pseudo-private parasite, not in a million years.

    I have come to realise that no such real private sector company is ever likely to really suceed in Ireland though, not without a massive change in the entire political and "business" culture.

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    Politics.ie Member Pabilito's Avatar
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    Private sector is all hard working everyday individuals just working privately every day to earn a living. Nothing special just everyday people doing everyday things to get by.. and ooh yes.. paying tax to keep the everyday economy going!

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    The much vaunted 'private sector' does not seem to exist in reality.
    The place looks very much like a pre '89 Eastern European commie state arrrrgh!!!

    As for 'landlords' they depend directly on debtors dole a.k.a. rent allowance, state subsidized tracker mortgages, NAMA bailouts and soon to be announced (and this debtor class will jump to the top of the queue no doubt) negative equity tax payer subsidized bailouts.

    We need a revolution here, its 20+ years overdue...

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    Politics.ie Member firefly123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pabilito View Post
    Private sector is all hard working everyday individuals just working privately every day to earn a living. Nothing special just everyday people doing everyday things to get by.. and ooh yes.. paying tax to keep the everyday economy going!
    Public sector don't I suppose. Last time I checked I worked hard doing everyday things to get by and paying tax that keeps the economy going and spending the rest in shops and on a mortgage.

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    Politics.ie Member farnaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieB View Post
    Riddle me this ....

    Just what exactly is the Private Sector in this country at this point in time ?



    Solicitors/Barristers/Accountants and their sundry staff : most would be unemployed or earning far less if it wasn't for the government

    Anybody working in a bank : no comment needed

    GPs / Dentists : would be earning far less if it wasn't for the government

    Developers / Builders / Tradesmen : Have been paid with borrowed money for years and most are now reliant on the government / NAMA / etc

    Farmers : Largely reliant on government / EU subsidies

    Semi State workers : essentially work for the government

    Multinational employees : many owe their jobs to a huge subsidy in the form of our corporate tax rate which is lower than most of our neighbours

    Public Sector / Civil Service workers : paid directly by the government

    Small business owners : surely rely on all the above for their revenue

    Service Sector workers : surely rely on all the above for their wages

    Landlords : no comment needed
    According to this you have a rather rigid definition of private sector - limiting it to indigenous enterprises exporting the bulk of their products or services. Which should be the backbone of any truly wealthy country's economy but in our case has unfortunately remained undeveloped for years.

    It's an interesting question which could go in two directions - is this a discussion about how to develop the indigenous export sector; or a blurring of the public-private sector divide so that "we're all in this together"? These don't have to be mutually exclusive debates...

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    It's a discussion about corruption, farnaby.

    But we don't call it corruption in Ireland because "everyone is at it, it's the way things are, so it can't be wrong"

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    Politics.ie Member farnaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SideysGhost View Post
    It's a discussion about corruption, farnaby.
    That's part of it. I just thought the OP was going along the lines of "it would be better if we had geniunely private enterprise in this country" to firstly get out of the hole we're in and secondly get rid of golden circles, crony appointees, corrupt decision-making and the dead weights of state splurging and quick buck consumerism.

    But then I thought that could be turned on its head - the OP was trying to tell us that everything in this economy is interlinked with the state with the corollary that the so-called private sector needs the public sector far more than it lets on and should drop the mantra of deep cuts.

    Perhaps CharlieB can enlighten us.

    Quote Originally Posted by SideysGhost View Post
    But we don't call it corruption in Ireland because "everyone is at it, it's the way things are, so it can't be wrong"
    It's worse than that - we do call it corruption but many refuse to condemn, punish or correct it and think it's nothing more than "cute hoorism" that's actually a good quality for our leaders and reps to have. A sick, self-destructive refusal to link an ethical vacuum with its disastrous consequences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieB View Post
    Riddle me this ....

    Just what exactly is the Private Sector in this country at this point in time ?



    Solicitors/Barristers/Accountants and their sundry staff : most would be unemployed or earning far less if it wasn't for the government

    Anybody working in a bank : no comment needed

    GPs / Dentists : would be earning far less if it wasn't for the government

    Developers / Builders / Tradesmen : Have been paid with borrowed money for years and most are now reliant on the government / NAMA / etc

    Farmers : Largely reliant on government / EU subsidies

    Semi State workers : essentially work for the government

    Multinational employees : many owe their jobs to a huge subsidy in the form of our corporate tax rate which is lower than most of our neighbours

    Public Sector / Civil Service workers : paid directly by the government

    Small business owners : surely rely on all the above for their revenue

    Service Sector workers : surely rely on all the above for their wages

    Landlords : no comment needed
    So, basically you're claiming that we are all public sector?
    Then why don't I have a public sector income, pension scheme, etc?
    Do we all have work contracts with the Gov't?

    Oh wait, you forgot the self-employed and fishermen. Ah, no, they'd be linked to the EU and Gov't by restrictions in practise.

    Bah, if it produces, it's definitely private sector. If it provides services, it might be Public sector.
    The enemy of my enemy is the enemy of my enemy. EU Army coming to be, the feckin' conspiracy nuts on Lisbon were right on this one.

  10. #10
    Politics.ie Member Fides's Avatar
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    It would be pretty unusual to run a business in any country and not have public sector clients/customers either directly or indirectly. Every restaurant, shop, plumber, electrician etc will have customers who receive a public sector salary or pensions/social welfare payments from the state.

    Private sector is defined by individuals setting up limited companies or sole traderships and giving it a go without any safety nets. If you go bust you go bust. You have no guarantee of a weekly wage or pension, only what you earn. There are no fixed hours of work for the week, no overtime payments, no guaranteed holidays. You end up doing everything from washing the loos to banking the cash. Why do it? Not working for someone else is great and the rewards can be very good. But remember 50% of new companies fold within 3 years. I'm in year 4!

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