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Thread: Taxpayers to plug €267m Fás pension deficit

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    Default Taxpayers to plug €267m Fás pension deficit

    FÁS has a massive €267 million hole in its pension fund which will now have to be paid for by the taxpayer under rules introduced last year to guarantee semi-state pension pots.


    The troubled state training agency has assets of €384.5m and liabilities of €632m in its pension fund, according to figures from the Department of Finance, leaving the taxpayer exposed to the €267.5m gap.

    Under the Financial Measures (Misc Provisions) Bill rushed through the Dáil in just three days last year, these pensions are guaranteed by the taxpayer.


    Taxpayers to plug €267m Fás pension deficit | Irish Examiner


    Another bank style bailout?

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    It's going to get very bad, if the figures below have not improved:

    Brian Lenihan Jnr (Minister, Department of Finance; Dublin West, Fianna Fail)

    The tabular statement below, based on returns from the relevant Bodies, shows the assets and liabilities at 31 December 2008 of the covered pension funds listed in Schedule 1 of the Financial Measures (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009. This is the latest date for which the information requested is available. The Deputy may wish to note that asset values for pension funds in general have improved in the interim and are subject to market fluctuations.


    2008 Assets 2008 Liabilities

    Arts Council 2,424,539 6,950,047
    Bord Bia 12,800,00 20,000,000
    CERT (Fáilte Ireland) 10,455,000 18,693,000
    FAS 328,193,000 631,428,000
    IDA (Forfás) 182,800,000 209,340,000
    Irish Goods Council (Forfas) 2,081,000 3,529,000
    Regional Tourism 16,000,000 31,000,000
    SFADCO 48,000,000 64,900,000
    IPA 20,700,000 40,800,000
    ESRI 13,372,000 25,257,000
    NUIG 176,995,701 249,000,000
    NUIM 47,372,000 114,000,000
    TCD 245,910,831 554,644,927
    UCC 267,495,000 385,579,000
    UCD 403,400,000 712,000,000
    National University of Ireland 6,133,000 13,104,00
    Pension Provisions: 1 Dec 2009: Written answers (KildareStreet.com)
    We have turned the corner.I commend this Budget to the House. Brian Lenihan, 9 December 2009

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    You would prefer to see ordinary workers lose their entire pension?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilW View Post
    You would prefer to see ordinary workers lose their entire pension?
    I would prefer the established pension schemes fund the pensions.

    If the pension fund assets can not meet the full liabilities than the pensioners have to deal with that, and maybe accept a smaller pension.

    If you look at the assets above, neither have a value of 0 so nobody was going to lose their "entire pension".
    We have turned the corner.I commend this Budget to the House. Brian Lenihan, 9 December 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilW View Post
    You would prefer to see ordinary workers lose their entire pension?
    Anyone who goes next or near the State sector gets a pension. For instance if you are employed under contract to a semi-state, you contribute to your state pension that is set up for you. Its ridiculas. There should be a sliding system of pension entitlements at least, reflecting those that are in direct state employment as opposed to this who are semi-state or just in actual fact private contractors contacted to the state for a limited period of time. To be an 'ordinary worker' in this country is to be faced with the very real prospect of having only the standard Old Age Pension to retire on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilW View Post
    You would prefer to see ordinary workers lose their entire pension?
    Many of these pension holders are not ordinary workers. UCD have been adding extra years to the pensions of retirees and now they are in deficit.

    Lower payments and higher contributions should be made before you ask ordinary workers to plug the gap.
    "I will remind the House, perhaps in 12 or 18 months, when prices have again increased by 25% or 30%, that they were told this by the Leader of the House" - Senator Donie Cassidy (April 10th 2008)

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCon View Post
    If you look at the assets above, neither have a value of 0 so nobody was going to lose their "entire pension".
    That entirely depends on the prioritisation order for the assets, doesnt it? If the assets are used to secure pensioners' benefits first then there may well be nothing left for current workers or their dependents. I still dont see why it is fair for ordinary workers to lose the benefits they have earned during their careers. Or why anyone would want to justify that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilW View Post
    That entirely depends on the prioritisation order for the assets, doesnt it? If the assets are used to secure pensioners' benefits first then there may well be nothing left for current workers or their dependents. I still dont see why it is fair for ordinary workers to lose the benefits they have earned during their careers. Or why anyone would want to justify that.
    Who are "ordinary workers"? Rody Molloy you mean?

    It might not be fair, but why should the exchequer step in?

    Is it fair that a lot of people are in negative equity? Should the State guarantee the price of their houses?
    We have turned the corner.I commend this Budget to the House. Brian Lenihan, 9 December 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thac0man View Post
    Anyone who goes next or near the State sector gets a pension. For instance if you are employed under contract to a semi-state, you contribute to your state pension that is set up for you. Its ridiculas. There should be a sliding system of pension entitlements at least, reflecting those that are in direct state employment as opposed to this who are semi-state or just in actual fact private contractors contacted to the state for a limited period of time. To be an 'ordinary worker' in this country is to be faced with the very real prospect of having only the standard Old Age Pension to retire on.
    Let's say you get a 3 year state contract today to empty the ashtray in Cowens merc. You're on €60k a year (PS pay is like that.) For the 3 years you'll pay, on top of your PRSI, a pension contribution and a pension levy and you'll also have to pay into the spouses and children's pension scheme. How much of a pension will you get from this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCon View Post
    Who are "ordinary workers"? Rody Molloy you mean?

    It might not be fair, but why should the exchequer step in?

    Is it fair that a lot of people are in negative equity? Should the State guarantee the price of their houses?
    If you're going to use Roddy Molloy as the typical PS worker you'll have to accept Eugene Sheehy as the typical private sector worker.

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