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Thread: Iraqi Court Acquits 'Redcap Murder' Suspects

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    Politics.ie Member picador's Avatar
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    Default Iraqi Court Acquits 'Redcap Murder' Suspects

    Red Cap murders: disbelief as Iraqi judge frees suspects - Telegraph

    There's fairly widespread 'outrage' in the British press after an Iraqi court released the last two suspects in the case of the six British Military Police Officers who were killed after an angry crowd stormed a police station in the south-eastern town of Majar al-Kabir in 2003.

    Unsurprsingly much of the coverage glosses over the fact that, shortly before the storming of the police station, the infamous First Batallion of the Parachute Regiment had rampaged through the town, shooting a number of local civilians, before withdrawing in the face of local resistance.

    While sections of the British media express their 'disbelief' over the Iraqi verdict I am perplexed that anyone in Britain seriously contends Iraqi nationals should be proscuted for the 'murder' of members of a force which invaded their country in violation of international law.

    Meanwhile the British Ministry of Defence refuses to explain why a number of servicemen suspected of involvement in the murder of Iraqi civilians were not put on trial.
    Last edited by picador; 11th October 2010 at 06:49 AM. Reason: Majar al-Kabir

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    Politics.ie Member former wesleyan's Avatar
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    Unarmed redcaps. "Heroic " Iraqi "resistance " ......like the two corporals torn apart by a "heroic " mob in Belfast. And the Iraqis were begging someone to come and destroy Saddam like the Belfast heros had previously been begging the Brits to come and save them from the rampaging Loyalists. Two classy outfits.

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    Politics.ie Member picador's Avatar
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    It's amazing some of the repsonse you get if you dare to critcise the mighty British Army.

    This thread is about events in Iraq - and the reaction to them in Britain. The soldiers were armed - one of those accused was charged with stealing weapons from the deceased. They also defended their position. Four Iraqis were killed and a number were wounded during the storming of the police station.
    Last edited by picador; 11th October 2010 at 06:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by picador View Post
    Red Cap murders: disbelief as Iraqi judge frees suspects - Telegraph

    There's fairly widespread 'outrage' in the British press after an Iraqi court released the last two suspects in the case of the six British Military Police Officers who were killed after an angry crowd stormed a police station in the south-eastern town of Majar al-Kabir in 2003.

    Unsurprsingly much of the coverage glosses over the fact that, shortly before the storming of the police station, the infamous First Batallion of the Parachute Regiment had rampaged through the town, shooting a number of local civilians, before withdrawing in the face of local resistance.

    While sections of the British media express their 'disbelief' over the Iraqi verdict I am perplexed that anyone in Britain seriously contends Iraqi nationals should be proscuted for the 'murder' of members of a force which invaded their country in violation of international law.

    Meanwhile the British Ministry of Defence refuses to explain why a number of servicemen suspected of involvement in the murder of Iraqi civilians were not put on trial.
    Stop telling lies

    They were training local Police and when the mob when thousands attacked the Police station, they surrendered and were butchered.

    QUOTE

    Mark Nicol
    The British BLACKHAWK DOWN: How a patrol from the Parachute Regiment fought its way to safety while six British military policemen were massacred.
    On 24 June 2003, six British military policemen were killed in the most horrific circumstances in Iraq. At the same time, and in the same town, a small patrol of the Parachute Regiment shot its way out of an Iraqi ambush.
    Mark Nicol investigates the controversial deaths of the Military Policemen, drawing on their own diaries and letters home, as well as eyewitness testimony from their Iraqi Police interpreters. At the same time, he tells the incredible story of how a hopelessly outnumbered patrol of Paras managed to escape the fury of the mob. The Paras were ready to die, fighting, in the best traditions of the maroon berets. Their lives were ultimately saved by Private Freddy Ellis, whose bravery under fire moved his commander on the ground to recommend he be decorated. Sergeant Gordon Robertson was awarded a Conspicuous Gallantry Cross for his leadership during the contact.


    The assault on the police station was launched after a sweep through Majar al-Kabir by soldiers from the 1st Battalion the Parachute Regiment.

    The town's inhabitants, who express no sorrow about the murders, are infuriated by the Paras' behaviour. They accuse them of breaking an agreement to end house-to-house searches and deliberately humiliating them.

    The chain of events leading to the murderous attack can be traced to Monday, when British officers met Iraqi community leaders in the town.

    The British wanted to clear the town of weapons. Many homes are miniature arsenals and coalition forces have accepted that depriving families of their AK-47 assault rifles, which are kept in almost every house, is an impossible task.

    Instead, the Paras wanted the people to surrender their rocket-propelled grenade launchers, anti-aircraft guns, mortars and other heavy weapons.
    Last edited by Aspherical123; 11th October 2010 at 10:39 AM.

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    Politics.ie Member Sync's Avatar
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    Seems pretty open and shut really:
    All of the witnesses testified before the high criminal court that they had not seen who killed the soldiers during the rampage in the southern Iraqi town of Majar al-Kabir on 24 June 2003. All said they had seen and heard the gunmen approach, but none saw the moment of death.
    So no witnesses, or any corroborating evidence. What else could the judges do?


    Lance Corporal Hyde's father John told Sky: "Quite honestly these people just haven't been in court long enough to be able to prove their innocence, which obviously asks the question why did the judge decide to bring it to court then dismiss it so quickly?"
    Because you don't have to "prove your innocence"

    On the larger issue, I'm not sure why this was a judicial matter. In 2003 everyone generally regarded the war as ongoing. Colin Powell's speech to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee | World news | guardian.co.uk

    Soldiers die in war. That's not necessarily a crime.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sync View Post
    Seems pretty open and shut really:


    So no witnesses, or any corroborating evidence. What else could the judges do?




    Because you don't have to "prove your innocence"

    On the larger issue, I'm not sure why this was a judicial matter. In 2003 everyone generally regarded the war as ongoing. Colin Powell's speech to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee | World news | guardian.co.uk

    Soldiers die in war. That's not necessarily a crime.
    Soldiers die in war, but militas and mobs dont have a right to butcher soldiers who surrender.


    Prove your innocence? Not sure about Iraq but you are presumed guilty till you prove your innocent in many countries. The Napoleonic code.
    “Guilty until proven innocent” was a precept of the old Civil Law that continued in the Napoleonic Code."

    In the Gulf nations of the Middle East, the influence of the Napoleonic code mixed with hints of Islamic law is clear, even in Saudi Arabia (which abides more towards Islamic law). In Kuwait for example, property rights, women's rights, and the education system can be seen as reenactments of the French civil code. Some of these aspects can be seen in other Gulf states, although less pronounced than in Kuwait, this primarily being due to the democratic nature of Kuwait, rather than the absolutist nature of the rest of the Gulf nations.
    Last edited by Aspherical123; 11th October 2010 at 11:01 AM.

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    Politics.ie Member Sync's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspherical123 View Post
    Prove your innocence? Not sure about Iraq but you are presumed guilty till you prove your innocent in many countries. The Napoleonic code.

    In the Gulf nations of the Middle East, the influence of the Napoleonic code mixed with hints of Islamic law is clear, even in Saudi Arabia (which abides more towards Islamic law). In Kuwait for example, property rights, women's rights, and the education system can be seen as reenactments of the French civil code. Some of these aspects can be seen in other Gulf states, although less pronounced than in Kuwait, this primarily being due to the democratic nature of Kuwait, rather than the absolutist nature of the rest of the Gulf nations.
    In Iraq there's the presumption of innocence although not a requirement to be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sync View Post
    In Iraq there's the presumption of innocence although not a requirement to be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
    Any link to prove your point? Most Islamic countries have the Napoleonic code or elements of sharia where you prove your innocent.

    Im pretty sure Iraq follows the Napoleonic code.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspherical123 View Post
    Any link to prove your point? Most Islamic countries have the Napoleonic code or elements of sharia where you prove your innocent.

    Im pretty sure Iraq follows the Napoleonic code.
    Nope, not since the new constitution. BBC NEWS | Middle East | Text: Iraqi interim constitution
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    Quote Originally Posted by picador View Post
    Red Cap murders: disbelief as Iraqi judge frees suspects - Telegraph

    There's fairly widespread 'outrage' in the British press after an Iraqi court released the last two suspects in the case of the six British Military Police Officers who were killed after an angry crowd stormed a police station in the south-eastern town of Majar al-Kabir in 2003.

    Unsurprsingly much of the coverage glosses over the fact that, shortly before the storming of the police station, the infamous First Batallion of the Parachute Regiment had rampaged through the town, shooting a number of local civilians, before withdrawing in the face of local resistance.

    While sections of the British media express their 'disbelief' over the Iraqi verdict I am perplexed that anyone in Britain seriously contends Iraqi nationals should be proscuted for the 'murder' of members of a force which invaded their country in violation of international law.

    Meanwhile the British Ministry of Defence refuses to explain why a number of servicemen suspected of involvement in the murder of Iraqi civilians were not put on trial.
    Good post, i too was amazed at the gall of the British to prosecute in the first place. As though this were a normal criminal procedure and resistance against the invaders was criminal in some fashion... Truly bizarre.

    Good that they have been acquitted however... I remember the case well and i remember feeling proud of the Iraqis on the day and the dismay it was greeted with in the UK. Even if the pressure such actions engenders in the home base of the attacking country is never sufficient to stop the slaughter then at least it punishes the Government in power in that country, it embarrasses them and forces them on the defensive.

    Soldiers die in war, but militas and mobs dont have a right to butcher soldiers who surrender.
    With only one or two arrests of British personnel for warcrimes despite a mountain of evidence piling up on the desk of the lawyer acting on behalf of victims i would say that your statement of 'rights' and 'laws' in war only apply to the Iraqis. The MOD has for example covered up the torture murder of around a dozen Iraqis in the aftermath of one battle alone, they let the colonel in charge of the Baha Mousa killers walk away scot free without blemish etc etc, NI in other words.

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