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Thread: Its not my fault, its my genes....

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    Default Its not my fault, its my genes....

    Theodore Darlymple (a pen name) is one of the most interesting and thoughtful of conservatives alive today. One of the contradictions of liberal society is that it at least claims to value freedom more than anything else and yet it also sets out to negate on personal responsibility for evil and/or failure (someone rapes or kills because they have had a bad childhood and therefore society should think in terms only rehabillition and not punishment is an extreme example of this though many today, especially among the middle class left, hold this opinion). Strangely liberals dont seem to notice that shrill protests of liberty and shrill protests of an absolving determinism contradict each other radically.

    A Russian in England was reported to have said when an English girl claimed something wasnt her fault because she was dyslexic that there was no such thing in the Soviet Union. Very limited access to generate pop music, not allowing kids to spend hours playing computer games, an education system based on forming character as opposed to passing exams to get jobs, strong family life and good parenting will tend to do that for a culture.

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    I was in town today, saw lots of teenagers hanging around. Frightening stuff, I can tell you. Every generation rebels against the previous, I know, but this new cohort can't even walk properly. For many standing seemed a bit of a hassle. No kidding.

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    Politics.ie Member yellowfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SevenStars View Post
    Theodore Darlymple (a pen name) is one of the most interesting and thoughtful of conservatives alive today. One of the contradictions of liberal society is that it at least claims to value freedom more than anything else and yet it also sets out to negate on personal responsibility for evil and/or failure (someone rapes or kills because they have had a bad childhood and therefore society should think in terms only rehabillition and not punishment is an extreme example of this though many today, especially among the middle class left, hold this opinion). Strangely liberals dont seem to notice that shrill protests of liberty and shrill protests of an absolving determinism contradict each other radically.

    A Russian in England was reported to have said when an English girl claimed something wasnt her fault because she was dyslexic that there was no such thing in the Soviet Union. Very limited access to generate pop music, not allowing kids to spend hours playing computer games, an education system based on forming character as opposed to passing exams to get jobs, strong family life and good parenting will tend to do that for a culture.
    Then the Russian was not very apt at using google, loads of information on dyslexia in Russia their. Don't know why your using it alongside ADHD.
    Are you saying that dyslexia is actually a cultural phenomena and we should all just knuckle down and hope for better parenting?
    What are you saying? what is your point, other than repeating something a Russian may or may not have said which was balls anyway?

    Edit- I see your Russian was talking about the soviet union, my apologies of course everything was better in the workers paradise, Health, housing, education and Gulags were all top notch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowfish View Post
    Then the Russian was not very apt at using google, loads of information on dyslexia in Russia their. Don't know why your using it alongside ADHD.
    Are you saying that dyslexia is actually a cultural phenomena and we should all just knuckle down and hope for better parenting?
    What are you saying? what is your point, other than repeating something a Russian may or may not have said which was balls anyway?
    The way that people apparently suffering these "disorders" has risen to such a great extent and risen at the same time and to the same extent as certain cultural trends deserves looking at it....Doesnt it?

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    Politics.ie Member yellowfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SevenStars View Post
    The way that people apparently suffering these "disorders" has risen to such a great extent and risen at the same time and to the same extent as certain cultural trends deserves looking at it....Doesnt it?
    Well you could start by showing how your chosen "disorders" are related, and highlight exactly which cultural trends you are talking about and show how your disorders have grown in relation to them. Personally i was dyslexic before i met any of your trends and i am not aware of any links to ADHD so you realy need to justify that one.
    The only reason i ever suffered anything relating to my dyslexia as a child was because of the ignorance of others, Is ignorance genetic?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SevenStars View Post
    Theodore Darlymple (a pen name) is one of the most interesting and thoughtful of conservatives alive today. One of the contradictions of liberal society is that it at least claims to value freedom more than anything else and yet it also sets out to negate on personal responsibility for evil and/or failure (someone rapes or kills because they have had a bad childhood and therefore society should think in terms only rehabillition and not punishment is an extreme example of this though many today, especially among the middle class left, hold this opinion). Strangely liberals dont seem to notice that shrill protests of liberty and shrill protests of an absolving determinism contradict each other radically.

    A Russian in England was reported to have said when an English girl claimed something wasnt her fault because she was dyslexic that there was no such thing in the Soviet Union. Very limited access to generate pop music, not allowing kids to spend hours playing computer games, an education system based on forming character as opposed to passing exams to get jobs, strong family life and good parenting will tend to do that for a culture.
    I could have at least partially agreed with you on the first point that society often apportions blame and causes for things for which there really is no cause i.e. a paedophile who was abused as a child only rapes children now because of that abuse. But then you went and ruined it by insinuating that dyslexia is entirely caused by pop music and computer games. Yes some people who are diagnosed with it probably shouldn't be, but attributing it purely to

    Anyway what constitutes someone as a liberal or a conservative? I'd call myself economically conservative (preferring the national accounts to be balanced, with Pension Reserve Fund style savings where possible). Yet I'd also call myself socially liberal - preferring religion to be left at the school gate among other things.

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    Politics.ie Member Panopticon's Avatar
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    That's because the OP is conflating liberalism with socialism. Rookie mistake, but the followers of American conservative Christianists do it all the time.

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    Politics.ie Member Old Mr Grouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SevenStars View Post
    The way that people apparently suffering these "disorders" has risen to such a great extent and risen at the same time and to the same extent as certain cultural trends deserves looking at it....Doesnt it?
    I agree with you, SS. These things do need to be investigated. And a proportion of Behavioural Problems may well be genetic.

    But a big chunk of such problems have epigenetic or other other congenital causes. Just for one example, there's firm scientific proof that drinking alcohol during pregnancy can cause neurobehavioral problems in children; it's called"alcohol-related neurodevelopmental disorder".

    Health Services in Ireland and the UK should be putting more resources into Mother & Child services for the very poorest sections of the community (those that the Irish middle-classes like to label "the undeserving poor").

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Mr Grouser View Post
    I agree with you, SS. These things do need to be investigated. And a proportion of Behavioural Problems may well be genetic.

    .
    We are all born with tendencies to anti-social/self-destructive/bad/etc behaviours...Thats the human condition that we all have to struggle with (I have a tendency to be aggressive aswell as a tendency to over the top romanticism while others might have a tendency to be lazy or to steal, etc). Whether those tendencies actually becomes manifest depends on two factors...1.) Our own free moral choice (people choose to do evil no matter what anyone says) and 2.) The structures and attitudes that surround us. We arent "naturally" good because most of the time to be good involves a struggle and its often much easier to do the wrong thing (there is a strong argument that a lot of people become bad basically through laziness), therefore we need structures in society that bring out the best in us and keep the worst in a potential state.

    Whatever about dyslexia the article that I linked too (written by a psychiatric doctor) does seem to show that Attention Deficet Disorder those partly come from a culture that doesnt foster concentration and would be better tackled culturally than chemically.

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