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Thread: Mobile Phone Usage & Driving

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    Default Mobile Phone Usage & Driving

    What evidence do the Gardai have to have before I can be prosecuted for using a MobPhone when driving ? There don't seem to be many of these cases or am I wrong about that ?
    Is it sufficient that the Garda sees my hand up to the side of my face as I drive past ?
    Is that kind of suspicion compelling evidence ?

    Will he be believed because he is a Garda and I as Joe Soap am unworthy of belief ?

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    Politics.ie Member controller's Avatar
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    I would have thought that that it would be easy enough to prove by looking at the mobile phone records showing the time and duration of all outgoing and incoming calls. Silly silly boy
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    Politics.ie Member 'orebel's Avatar
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    It'll be interesting to find out.
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    Politics.ie Member Malbekh's Avatar
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    Uh....how many times have you seen someone illegally using a mobile phone while you were driving your car? Usually in conjunction with erratic driving? Now put a cop in your place, particularly is you're the spotter in the car.

    So you'll be stopped there and then.

    Are you seriously going to deny it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by controller View Post
    I would have thought that that it would be easy enough to prove by looking at the mobile phone records showing the time and duration of all outgoing and incoming calls. Silly silly boy
    And suppose.....just suppose now....that the MPhone belonged to someone else and / or that I had more than one MPhone ? How does he even know I have a MobPhone ? He is operating on the basis of assumptions because he did not see a MPhone with me.....so there !

    Now as for assumptions....is that reliable evidence ?

    I don't think I need to prove that I have or do not have a MobPhone.
    But how can he prove that ?
    Trawl around all the MobPhone operators ?
    Repeat:...he did not see a MobPhone with me.....he saw my hand at the side of my head when standing at the opposite side of the road through a shiny windscreen and at a distance of about 20 yards......now how certain is that kind of evidence ?

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    Politics.ie Member Mister men's Avatar
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    Serves you right tbh. Hope you get points on the licence and a fine.

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    Politics.ie Member controller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abacus View Post
    And suppose.....just suppose now....that the MPhone belonged to someone else and / or that I had more than one MPhone ? How does he even know I have a MobPhone ? He is operating on the basis of assumptions because he did not see a MPhone with me.....so there !

    Now as for assumptions....is that reliable evidence ?

    I don't think I need to prove that I have or do not have a MobPhone.
    But how can he prove that ?
    Trawl around all the MobPhone operators ?
    Repeat:...he did not see a MobPhone with me.....he saw my hand at the side of my head when standing at the opposite side of the road through a shiny windscreen and at a distance of about 20 yards......now how certain is that kind of evidence ?
    Who is the judge going to believe?? If you are guilty, just take your points & your fine.
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    I've been in that position - scratching my left ear while driving at 100kph on a national road passing a garda car parked to my left on a side road. In my view an unbelievable conclusion to draw from a fleeting glimpse. The garda even had to put on the lights to chase me down - I'd guess mostly because he was unlikely to have had enough time to read my registration.

    Long story short - innocent or guilty you've little choice but to pay the fine. Only real option figure out the station the garda belonged to and try to persuade his superintendent that one of his staff isn't infallible.

    Take it all the way to court and you might well win but it'll take over a year and cost you more in time off and possibly solicitor fees.

    Garda is not required to have any evidence - if necessary he'll say the other garda in the car saw it, i.e two witnesses to one - are you calling a garda a liar etc. and gets unpleasant quickly. In the court situation the garda can't back down even if he's got second thoughts as the judge could blow his top.

    Another problem is your phone company will not release complete details of your phone calls, i.e. won't confirm you'd no incoming calls due to data protection. You can't prove you'd no call.

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    Think I should clarify something right here in this discussion. I'm in favour of obeying the law in all normal circumstances where there is no compelling reason to do otherwise.
    I will accept all sanctions imposed on me that have been proved by credible sworn evidence in our law courts. If I know that the state have good evidence, then I will make it easy for them by making a plea at the hearing.

    But I will not assist the state to make a case against me when I KNOW that the prosecutor does not have and cannot possibly have any credible evidence to show my guilt. The state is required in law to prove it's own case and there is no obligation on me to assist the prosecution against me.

    Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

    Now if the state proceed against me by the false evidence of a Garda then I do not have to accept that. Why should anyone be convicted on the basis of bum evidence ?
    In the higher courts where evidence is put through the reality tests, the evidence I speak of here concerning the possible sighting by a Garda of a moving car and the contents of a hand which he could not see, would not be accepted. Most probably, it would not be accepted because I would have a barrister listing the string of doubts that destroy the certainty that the Judge is looking for and must have, before proceeding to a conviction in my case.

    Assumptions and beliefs make for easy bedfellows. But they make poor facts and we all know who gets the benefit of such, don't we ?

    Is it wrong of me to check the Gardai for giving false evidence ?

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    Politics.ie Member rockofcashel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaqagax View Post
    I've been in that position - scratching my left ear while driving at 100kph on a national road passing a garda car parked to my left on a side road. In my view an unbelievable conclusion to draw from a fleeting glimpse. The garda even had to put on the lights to chase me down - I'd guess mostly because he was unlikely to have had enough time to read my registration.

    Long story short - innocent or guilty you've little choice but to pay the fine. Only real option figure out the station the garda belonged to and try to persuade his superintendent that one of his staff isn't infallible.

    Take it all the way to court and you might well win but it'll take over a year and cost you more in time off and possibly solicitor fees.

    Garda is not required to have any evidence - if necessary he'll say the other garda in the car saw it, i.e two witnesses to one - are you calling a garda a liar etc. and gets unpleasant quickly. In the court situation the garda can't back down even if he's got second thoughts as the judge could blow his top.

    Another problem is your phone company will not release complete details of your phone calls, i.e. won't confirm you'd no incoming calls due to data protection. You can't prove you'd no call.
    Yes you can, you can get your mobile phone bill and that can prove that you didn't make a call at a particular time.

    Plus, the burden of evidence if you pursue a case is on the side of the Gardai to prove you committed a fine, not on you to prove you didnt commit a fine.

    Look for a jury trial if necessary. Then create reasonable doubt. Send the Guard to the back of the courthouse and scratch your ear. Do this a number of times, and make him or her say whether you have a mobile in your hand at the time.

    Fight it all the way.
    1,197 people agree with me.. how many agree with you ?

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