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Thread: Crowd control at Aviva Stadium last Sat,& Joe.Duffy

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    Default Crowd control at Aviva Stadium last Sat,& Joe.Duffy

    OP amended 6/10/10.

    The problems alluded to in the following posts are mostly based on single point observations of a one off event.
    Many posters knowledge,including my own,of the overall complexity of this stadium is not comprehensive.
    Readers should bear this in mind

    Having reviewed the overall content of the thread to date I am satisfied that all technical issues/concerns raised on the thread can be resolved satisfactorily and without difficulty.

    Also I am satisfied soley on the basis of this thread that the provision of exits from this building is adequate & safe.

    There is an issue with crowd control related to how movements of people in one part of the stadium is managed.


    OP [original]

    A caller to the show complained about serious potential danger during the exits of 50,000 people after the match.
    There were complaints of people allegedly being stuck in a tunnel for up to 40 minutes.
    This is serious stuff.

    There is new pedestrian rail underpass single tunnel beneath the road/ rail gates at Landsdowne rd adjacent to the Dart station

    My recollection is that it is narrow perhaps 3metres to 5 metres wide.



    The penultimate match I was at in Landsdown rd the railway gates were opened to accommodate the vast hordes of people going toward ballsbridge area.after match.


    [I expect there is a a 13 metre ope[40 feet] when both gates are open and there was never a problem.]

    Is it possible that excess numbers of people tried to funnel their way into this narrow railway underpass because the overhead rail gates were closed?


    These gates were definitely closed full time prior to the match last Saturday. I saw them closed and was forced to use this dingy narrow underpass myself.

    In all probability they remained closed full time after the match.

    Its not so important prior to a match when people are arriving in small isolated groups at different time intervals.

    But after a match everybody leaves at the same time more or less.
    Post crowd control is therefor far more demanding on the authorities.

    Were too many people compelled to use an unsuitable underground tunnel because the personnel responsible did not want to open the railway gates?

    Is there some new crackpot policy that the railway gates must remain closed after a major football match?

    There are questions to answer on this one.

    Anybody else have a view on this?
    Last edited by The Field Marshal; 6th October 2010 at 01:56 PM.

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    I already posted this over on the Magners League Thread in Off Topics:

    I had parked in the Pembroke Wanderers' ground (great, well marshelled parking facility and value at €8.00) so came out of the ground adjacent to the Elvery's shop. Then went over and up along the Dodder beside the Marian College before turning left along by the tracks to Sydney Parade.

    The lighting was extremely poor and the crush near the tunnel beneath the railway tracks (at Lansdowne station) was not pleasant. I would hate to have been responsible for a child. As it was, I had travelled with two adults and we did become separated at that point.

    I have been going to Lansdowne Road to rugby games since the 70's and have never experienced the exit problems that were apparent at the inter-provinces game and now this. There definitely is a serious risk of injury or fatality in the wrong circumstances if this is not sorted.

    I don't understand how, with larger crowds in the old stadium, the current problems were just not there.

    Your comment re the railway gates explains my final point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Field Marshal View Post
    A caller to the show complained about serious potential danger during the exits of 50,000 people after the match.
    There were complaints of people being stuck in a tunnel for up to 40 minutes.
    This is serious stuff.

    There is new pedestrian rail underpass tunnel beneath the road/ rail gates at Landsdowne rd

    It is very narrow perhaps 3metres [10 feet] wide.

    It is clearly the tunnel the caller was referring to.

    The last match I was at in Landsdown rd the railway gates were opened to accommodate the vast hordes of people going toward ballsbridge area.after match.

    These gates were definitely closed full time prior to the match last Saturday. I saw them closed.

    [I expect there is a a 15 metre ope[50 feet] when both gates are open and there was never a problem.]

    To try and funnel thousands of people into this narrow railway underpass whilst keeping the overhead rail gates closed would be criminal negligence.


    Anybody else have a view on this
    Criminal behaviour by security.

    Was there with 3 young kids, (approximately 5/6 years old).

    Getting in was a nightmare, we were Turnstile C - huge crowds blocking road queing. No people at the other Turnstiles, asked if I could enter with kids through these turnstiles whcih were all open for business but had absolutely nobody queueing at them. Was advised Security had to abide by the system - which seemingly was that thousands had to queue at the three C Turnstiles, blocking the road completely while all the other turnstiles were open for businessbut wouldn't let the public through.

    After the game was as near as I've been to people & children being crushed to death. I was backed up against an emergency gate with the three kids - with huge crowds pusing back against us - I pleaded with a dumb Security f****r to open the gate to reduce the crush, he refused, said it was for "emergency purposes only", it was only when several other parents and myself threatened to climb the gate and kill him that he finally opened the gate. With the help of two complete strangers we ran for our lives with the 3 kids with a "tsunami" of people flooding through the open gate.

    To say the least I'm seriously p*ssed off with the IRFU and especially with the Security company - some of them are total morons and can't appreciate when a potential life or death situation is building up at a scary speed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consultant View Post
    I already posted this over on the Magners League Thread in Off Topics:




    Your comment re the railway gates explains my final point.
    Thank you consultant.

    It is now clear that the road railway exit of approx [40ft] 13 metres width which traditionally was used to permit the outflow of the majority of 50,000 spectators from Landsdowne is now being kept shut.
    Has this system of exiting been replaced by an underpass system which may be causing problems?
    Last edited by The Field Marshal; 6th October 2010 at 12:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Biffomania View Post
    To say the least I'm seriously p*ssed off with the IRFU and especially with the Security company - some of them are total morons and can't appreciate when a potential life or death situation is building up at a scary speed.
    There is significant tension between the Honorary IRFU Stewards - who have been running the show at Lansdowne forever and who continue to have a depleted role at the Aviva Stadium - and the new management of the Aviva Stadium which is a fulltime operation and which employs its own staff many of whom do not have experience of stewarding major sporting events. There has been complaints from traditional IRFU Stewards about various situations and there have been meetings regarding those complaints - it is still not working though. The major problem as I see it is the group of people who are taking the lead role (less experienced) whereas the experienced stewards have been forced into a secondary role.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Field Marshal View Post
    It is now clear that the road railway exit of approx [40ft] 13 metres width which traditionally was used to permit the outflow of the majority of 50,000 spectators from Landsdowne is now being kept shut in favour of a narrow underpass of 3 metres width.
    The major problem is that management wants the spectators to disperse roughly in the manner that they entered (via the routes printed on the tickets). That isn't going to work though as people want to go to pubs and to see friends who are all in roughly the same direction.

    Opening and closing the railway gates, as was previously the policy, wasn't particularly safe either as it caused a stutter in crowd flow unlike the new way which is meant to create a continuous flow. There is also meant to be an increased Dart capacity which gets people out of the area more efficiently. It isn't working though because as I said above, people legitimately do not want to leave the way the stadium management wants them to. It wasn't helped on Saturday by a load of security guards causing a massive cordon from time to time on Lansdowne Road either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnfás View Post
    There is significant tension between the Honorary IRFU Stewards - who have been running the show at Lansdowne forever and who continue to have a depleted role at the Aviva Stadium - and the new management of the Aviva Stadium which is a fulltime operation and which employs its own staff many of whom do not have experience of stewarding major sporting events. There has been complaints from traditional IRFU Stewards about various situations and there have been meetings regarding those complaints - it is still not working though. The major problem as I see it is the group of people who are taking the lead role (less experienced) whereas the experienced stewards have been forced into a secondary role.
    Whose decision was it to keep the railway gates closed after the match?

    This is what probablyexacerbated the problems.

    Both Gardai,Aviva and iarnroad Eireann have a role in all this.

    Have any breachs of health & safety or building regulations
    occurred.?

    It is dismal and disgraceful that a new state of the art building should pose potential threats to public safety & problems of this nature.
    Last edited by The Field Marshal; 6th October 2010 at 12:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Biffomania View Post
    Criminal behaviour by security.

    Was there with 3 young kids, (approximately 5/6 years old).

    Getting in was a nightmare, we were Turnstile C - huge crowds blocking road queing. No people at the other Turnstiles, asked if I could enter with kids through these turnstiles whcih were all open for business but had absolutely nobody queueing at them. Was advised Security had to abide by the system - which seemingly was that thousands had to queue at the three C Turnstiles, blocking the road completely while all the other turnstiles were open for businessbut wouldn't let the public through.

    After the game was as near as I've been to people & children being crushed to death. I was backed up against an emergency gate with the three kids - with huge crowds pusing back against us - I pleaded with a dumb Security f****r to open the gate to reduce the crush, he refused, said it was for "emergency purposes only", it was only when several other parents and myself threatened to climb the gate and kill him that he finally opened the gate. With the help of two complete strangers we ran for our lives with the 3 kids with a "tsunami" of people flooding through the open gate.

    To say the least I'm seriously p*ssed off with the IRFU and especially with the Security company - some of them are total morons and can't appreciate when a potential life or death situation is building up at a scary speed.

    Common sense goes out the window at times like this.

    Sounds like a nightmare for you and the kids

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    Quote Originally Posted by Biffomania View Post
    After the game was as near as I've been to people & children being crushed to death. I was backed up against an emergency gate with the three kids - with huge crowds pusing back against us - I pleaded with a dumb Security f****r to open the gate to reduce the crush, he refused, said it was for "emergency purposes only", it was only when several other parents and myself threatened to climb the gate and kill him that he finally opened the gate. With the help of two complete strangers we ran for our lives with the 3 kids with a "tsunami" of people flooding through the open gate.

    To say the least I'm seriously p*ssed off with the IRFU and especially with the Security company - some of them are total morons and can't appreciate when a potential life or death situation is building up at a scary speed.
    A couple of families who went said "never gain" to me.

    The huge level of drunkeness coupled with the Hillsborough like organisation is a recipe for disaster.

    I was planning on going to the Russia game. I'm not sure now.

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    The lessons of Hillsborough have still to be learned over here, it seems.
    Wouldn't it be fun
    If they gave the ref a gun?

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