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Thread: Labour and Anglo

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    Politics.ie Member adamirer's Avatar
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    Default Labour and Anglo

    I saw Quinn on RTE a few mins ago, re-iterating Labour wanted AIB and BOI temporarily nationalised. What was their position on PTSB, Nationwide and most critically Anglo.

    Anglo after all was nationalised, turning private debt into state debt. This was a disaster. So can someone explain exactly what Labour had in mind for the non big 2 banks???

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    I don't know about the others, but Permanent TSB is solvent, and has not needed or taken any State money, nor is their property portfolio impaired in any way. Hence it would not need to be nationalised as they are operating as a normal bank should.

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    Politics.ie Member Nipper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamirer View Post
    I saw Quinn on RTE a few mins ago, re-iterating Labour wanted AIB and BOI temporarily nationalised. What was their position on PTSB, Nationwide and most critically Anglo.

    Anglo after all was nationalised, turning private debt into state debt. This was a disaster. So can someone explain exactly what Labour had in mind for the non big 2 banks???

    Natinalisation does not turn private debt into state debts.

    Banks still have limited liability even if the state is a shareholder.

    It is the bank Garauntee that put us on the hook. This could have been let expire as originally planned per legislation .

    Banks that were insolvent could then the put into liquidation.

    This is what used to be known of as capitalism.

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    Politics.ie Member adamirer's Avatar
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    Thanks, but doesnt really answer my question, what was Labours position on what to do with Anglo and NIB???

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamirer View Post
    Thanks, but doesnt really answer my question
    You're dealing with something Labour related; No clear policies = No clear answers.

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    I think the policy on Anglo was let it and its parasites go to the wall - the correct opition for the people but not the gombeens - no polices that will be the two Tory parties my limp wristed friends

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    Politics.ie Member Old Mr Grouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nipper View Post
    Natinalisation does not turn private debt into state debts.

    Banks still have limited liability even if the state is a shareholder.

    It is the bank Garauntee that put us on the hook. This could have been let expire as originally planned per legislation .

    Banks that were insolvent could then the put into liquidation. ...
    And there's also the issue of the banks' assets.

    The securities that they were holding against unpaid debts. Those assets which have gone to NAMA, or have otherwise disposed off since October 2008 when the banks became insolvent, are now not available to the the banks' bondholders and other creditors.

    The state has incurred a liability on that account.
    Last edited by Old Mr Grouser; 29th September 2010 at 08:40 PM. Reason: typo

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    Politics.ie Member Reality bites's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamirer View Post
    Thanks, but doesnt really answer my question, what was Labours position on what to do with Anglo and NIB???
    It would have been to put them into receivership with an orderly winddown or liquidation but the bank guarantee ended any chance of that once senior debt, and dated and undated subordianted debt was blanket guaranteed. No explanation for this decision has ever been given. Once that was done it would be impossible to wind down Anglo without massive exposure to taxpayer. labour was only party to vote against Bank guarantee and to question these issues properly
    For evidence see
    Press releases » Media centre » The Labour Party
    Blog archive » Labour Blog » The Labour Party

    Further it has proven very difficult for TDs and opposition spokespersons to get proper information on what was going on with anglo, eg
    Press releases » Media centre » The Labour Party

    See below a quote from labour's policy document 'A Clean break from Business as Usual' published in February 2009.

    Labour opposed the legislation enacting the Bank Guarantee, because we were not prepared to support the commitment of enormous sums of taxpayers money, without adequate information or fundamental reform, including regime change in the Banks. Subsequent revelations about the affairs at Anglo Irish Bank have justified this position.

    Labour also questioned the inclusion of ‘dated subordinated debt’ in the bank guarantee, a form of near-equity capital which has not been included in guarantees in other countries. Labour voted against the Bill nationalising Anglo Irish Bank, noting in particular the refusal of the Government to appoint a High Court Inspector to the Bank.
    'I am not one of those who in expressing opinions confine themselves to facts' -Mark Twain

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    Politics.ie Member adamirer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reality bites View Post
    It would have been to put them into receivership with an orderly winddown or liquidation but the bank guarantee ended any chance of that once senior debt, and dated and undated subordianted debt was blanket guaranteed. No explanation for this decision has ever been given. Once that was done it would be impossible to wind down Anglo without massive exposure to taxpayer. labour was only party to vote against Bank guarantee and to question these issues properly
    For evidence see
    Press releases » Media centre » The Labour Party
    Blog archive » Labour Blog » The Labour Party

    Further it has proven very difficult for TDs and opposition spokespersons to get proper information on what was going on with anglo, eg
    Press releases » Media centre » The Labour Party

    See below a quote from labour's policy document 'A Clean break from Business as Usual' published in February 2009.
    Thanks Reality, but I'm not sure thats clear.
    I just read both oct 2008 press release and what they say is Cowen hasnt answered questions, Labour doesn't agree etc. It doesn't set out what Labour actually proposed to do, merely asks, correctly btw, serious questions.

    Once the guarantee was given, FF/Greens took one approach, which we all know.
    FG took another approach, basically let the banks sort their ow issues out/fail and set up a new 4bn bank.
    I haven't seen what Labour proposed to do with Anglo and NIB explicity said. I'm happy enough they said nationalise AIB, BOI and PTSB.. but what of the others.

    In other words, where do I find Labours position spelt out from Q4 2008 and Q1 2009 on what to do with the Anglo and NIB???

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    Politics.ie Member adamirer's Avatar
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    And I'm asking this because I don't see how nationalsing would have improved the situation. Why do i say that? we nationalised Anglo in Jan 2009, and only now are we getting a (probably) final picture. Nationalising Anglo didn't help us one jot.

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