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Thread: Social Welfare Reform?

  1. #1
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    Default Social Welfare Reform?

    This may have been proposed on previous threads but:

    I would have no problem paying my taxes, or even increasing taxes (God forbid) if I was confident that my hard earned (open to interpretation ) cash was not fraudulently claimed in Social Welfare.

    Of the c. 20 Bn we spend on Social Welfare how much is fraudulently claimed?

    Lets say 5% or 1 billion is fraud. (Seeing as the department themselves saved 500 million through the detection of fraud in 2008)

    2009 Press Releases Press Office Department of Social Protection

    We could save this, among other savings by switching social welfare from a cash system to a debit card (or any chip and pin type) system.

    Instead of receiving cash into your hand you pay for groceries, school books, clothes, esb, gas etc. with your debit card, (looks exactly the same as any other debit card so people won't feel victimized!)

    Before anyone says, 'what about people who get their food from street vendors without card machines?' fear not, you could allow a certain amount of cash to be withdrawn from an atm (say 50 per week) to allow some non-card purchases.

    Benefits:

    1. Social Welfare cards can be set up so that they do not work abroad, therefore only people in receipt of social welfare who reside in the state can avail of their welfare here.
    2. Gov't can track the receipt of all social welfare payments and allowances into the account of each individual providing a joined up system of payment monitoring.
    3. It might be be possible to prevent/limit the purchase of alcohol or cigarettes (with the subsequent health benefits) with the use of the card but that would drastically lessen the tax take on those products, and might not go down too well with those who would prefer to spend every penny they receive on those things.
    4. The debit card system reduces the cost of operating post offices on Dole day. (Bit of a stretch with that one but anyway!)
    5. Social Welfare money is transmitted to the account of an individual allowing revenue/CAB to assess if a person is making money by another means
    6. 1 Bn saved means 1 Bn less in tax we have to pay or 1 Bn more available to other budgets (Or to f%@k into the big black bank hole)

    Costs:

    1. For 500,000 people on the live register, if the cost per card was, I'm guessing 50 then that's 25million. (I imagine it's less but given our history with rolling anything out in this country!)
    2. A bit of hassle


    Anybody?

    [sits down with a cup of coffee and awaits the arrival of the lynch mob]
    "Never in the field of human endeavour was so much owed by so many to so few." Sir Winston Churchill

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    Handing out €205 + rent allowance to able bodied men is a joke.

    We should halve that figure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firefighter View Post
    Handing out 205 + rent allowance to able bodied men is a joke.

    We should halve that figure.
    Fair enough, but I was wondering if we could get a handle on the massive fraud that takes place first then worry about the actual allowances later?
    "Never in the field of human endeavour was so much owed by so many to so few." Sir Winston Churchill

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    I don't believe social welfare recipients should have their dole halved, unless landlord's dole is also cut by at least the same amount.

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    Ok so we know firefighters stand on whatever he's on about but what about the change in system?
    "Never in the field of human endeavour was so much owed by so many to so few." Sir Winston Churchill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultor View Post
    This may have been proposed on previous threads but:

    I would have no problem paying my taxes, or even increasing taxes (God forbid) if I was confident that my hard earned (open to interpretation ) cash was not fraudulently claimed in Social Welfare.

    Of the c. 20 Bn we spend on Social Welfare how much is fraudulently claimed?

    Lets say 5% or 1 billion is fraud. (Seeing as the department themselves saved 500 million through the detection of fraud in 2008)

    2009************Press Releases************Press Office************Department of Social Protection

    We could save this, among other savings by switching social welfare from a cash system to a debit card (or any chip and pin type) system.

    Instead of receiving cash into your hand you pay for groceries, school books, clothes, esb, gas etc. with your debit card, (looks exactly the same as any other debit card so people won't feel victimized!)

    Before anyone says, 'what about people who get their food from street vendors without card machines?' fear not, you could allow a certain amount of cash to be withdrawn from an atm (say 50 per week) to allow some non-card purchases.

    Benefits:

    1. Social Welfare cards can be set up so that they do not work abroad, therefore only people in receipt of social welfare who reside in the state can avail of their welfare here.
    2. Gov't can track the receipt of all social welfare payments and allowances into the account of each individual providing a joined up system of payment monitoring.
    3. It might be be possible to prevent/limit the purchase of alcohol or cigarettes (with the subsequent health benefits) with the use of the card but that would drastically lessen the tax take on those products, and might not go down too well with those who would prefer to spend every penny they receive on those things.
    4. The debit card system reduces the cost of operating post offices on Dole day. (Bit of a stretch with that one but anyway!)
    5. Social Welfare money is transmitted to the account of an individual allowing revenue/CAB to assess if a person is making money by another means
    6. 1 Bn saved means 1 Bn less in tax we have to pay or 1 Bn more available to other budgets (Or to f%@k into the big black bank hole)

    Costs:

    1. For 500,000 people on the live register, if the cost per card was, I'm guessing 50 then that's 25million. (I imagine it's less but given our history with rolling anything out in this country!)
    2. A bit of hassle


    Anybody?

    [sits down with a cup of coffee and awaits the arrival of the lynch mob]
    Ime outside with the rope,enjoy your last cuppa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by idle tim View Post
    Ime outside with the rope,enjoy your last cuppa.
    I will surely!! It was getting lonely here for a while, at least now I'll have some company!!
    "Never in the field of human endeavour was so much owed by so many to so few." Sir Winston Churchill

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    And of course why not create a bank to run this operation. Also a biometric element would be a good inclusion for these cards - that would eliminate a significant amount of fraud.

    Regards...jmcc

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    Quote Originally Posted by firefighter View Post
    Handing out 205 + rent allowance to able bodied men is a joke.

    We should halve that figure.
    Should you not be out polishing your fire engine,doing a bit of ladder training or rescueing cats from trees,instead of wasting tax payers money on the station laptop.

  10. #10
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    Rent allowance should be cut - but oh dear, that would not suit landlords (e.g. Frank 'Forty Flats' Fahey), as they would just have to cut their rents given the state of the property markets.

    No far better to complete the FF cycle for landowners.

    Just in case you have forgot what that is. They rezone your land, they let you build it with our tax revenue, and then they get tenants to pay the rent for you.

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