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Thread: Goldman, Anglo, Quinn: 'Chinese wall effective', just hope they don't read the Indo

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    Default Goldman, Anglo, Quinn: 'Chinese wall effective', just hope they don't read the Indo

    'Chinese wall' is the term used to describe work systems in a company which is acting for clients with conflicting interests. These are intended to reassure clients and others that the company is able to fully promote the interests of both clients simultaneously, even if those clients' interests are at odds with each other. So they have different staff, and procedures to prevent one set accessing the files of the other and so on...

    Occasionally a firm may have to hope that its clients' confidence in these Chinese walls survives media reports like this one by Laura Noonan in yesterday's Irish Independent.


    INVESTMENT bank Goldman Sachs is snapping up discounted Quinn Group debt on behalf of clients while simultaneously advising the Government on Anglo Irish Bank's Quinn dealings.

    The Irish Independent has learned that Goldman Sachs has been retained by the National Treasury Management Agency (Ntma) to run the rule over various plans submitted by Anglo.

    This role includes examining Anglo's proposal to buy embattled Quinn Insurance to improve the bank's chances of recouping a €2.7bn debt owed by the wider Quinn Group and family, sources confirmed.

    Separately, Goldman Sachs traders have also been actively buying up Quinn Group bonds on behalf of its clients.


    Goldman plays dual role with Quinn Group - World, Business - Independent.ie

    The story goes on to note that the relatively 'small' level of debt - €50,000,000 - that's been bought by Goldman means the bank's clients could not have a deciding say in the way the Quinn Group's debt is ultimately restructured.

    However, the value of Goldman's clients' Quinn debt could rise or fall depending on the way Anglo's outstanding issues with Quinn are resolved.

    Which outcome would Goldman prefer?


    ++++++++++++

    From the archive:

    ...Other emails that emerged yesterday showed Lloyd Blankfein, Goldman’s chief executive, boasting about the money the bank made from the housing market collapse

    Goldman trader's email slur - Times Online

    http://www.politics.ie/economy/11805...ml#post2630001
    Last edited by He3; 24th September 2010 at 10:42 AM.
    "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair.

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    Any defenders of the Chinese Wall system around?
    "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by He3 View Post
    Any defenders of the Chinese Wall system around?
    Oh dont worry the usual suspects will appear...Cyberpian,athlonedub, johnfas etc. No doubt they will defend firms working for NAMA that are also work for developers and banks. We will be told Ireland is a small place and 'not many experts around'

    Crooked scum the lot of them.

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    Earlier today Peter Sutherland, ex of such ethically sound institutions such as Goldman Sachs and BP, advised the Govt not to default on Bank Bondholders at it would save about 5.5 billion and the consequences would cost far more.

    I think, if the investment in private Banks by bondholders, threatens the sovereign economy in which the Bank is resident, we should consider making bond trading illegal, based on anti terrorism legislation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MPB View Post
    Earlier today Peter Sutherland, ex of such ethically sound institutions such as Goldman Sachs and BP, advised the Govt not to default on Bank Bondholders at it would save about 5.5 billion and the consequences would cost far more.

    I think, if the investment in private Banks by bondholders, threatens the sovereign economy in which the Bank is resident, we should consider making bond trading illegal, based on anti terrorism legislation.
    "On one occasion, Mr Sutherland visited Mr Lenihan to tell him what a great job at Finance he thought he was doing.
    He also told Mr Lenihan that he had the potential to be one of the great taoisigh of the 21st Century. Mr Lenihan was taken aback, Mr Sutherland said."


    -- Sutherland was 'horrified' when Lenihan told him about illness - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie

    Sutherland must have been very disappointed when his backup plan Richard Bruton didn't fly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bokonon View Post
    "On one occasion, Mr Sutherland visited Mr Lenihan to tell him what a great job at Finance he thought he was doing.
    He also told Mr Lenihan that he had the potential to be one of the great taoisigh of the 21st Century. Mr Lenihan was taken aback, Mr Sutherland said."


    -- Sutherland was 'horrified' when Lenihan told him about illness - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie

    Sutherland must have been very disappointed when his backup plan Richard Bruton didn't fly.
    An uncanny knack for always championing the Bankers friend has Mr Sutherland.

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    Chinese walls can be effective but doesn't mean that they necessarily are; in much the same way that any procedure can be thwarted - and often is - over a pint in a golf club. At the end of the day professional services are based on contract and it is up to whoever is instructing the firm as to whether they are happy with the procedures in place. They are more than entitled to move their business to another firm if they are not happy with the systems in place or those working within the system.

    It is true that there are a limited number of firms who can deal with the complexity and scale of the work involved in some of the issues being dealt with at present. The number is larger of course than the number of firms which the Government actually gives work to. The Government only gives really big work to the "big 5" in each profession, whereas there are probably 10-12 firms in the country currently capable. In many cases firms hovering around number 10 don't bother tendering because it is money wasted owing to a flawed policy on the part of the Government. However, thankfully that is changing a bit as you see accountancy firms like Mazars getting increasing Government work. Equally in the law there are a number of international firms setting up bases here lately, such as Maples & Calder, which is to be welcomed, but how much interest they have in involving themselves in the domestic market is unclear. If they can make money in it one assumes they will though.

    Of course the same posters complain when NAMA establishes a panel of advisors - which draws upon an expertise across the country in respect of local markets - arguing that it would be cheaper to do it centrally.

    You can't have your cake and eat it. The work should be carried out by a combination of the cheapest price and the most effective market provider.
    Last edited by johnfás; 24th September 2010 at 02:47 PM.

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    Chinese Walls shlte does not work, during the day the lads are in separate offices and dont exchange e-mail and meomos - no trace, but once they leave the office and head for the pub or elsewhere - gloves off and they go to confession.

    Whats good for these lads is good for Goldmans and hard to see if the Irish boss of Goldmans is not listening/evaluating all sides, you gotta think they have a UK buyer lined up but then again probably another Chinese Wall that buyer is hiding behind.

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    Chinese walls are only as good as the ethical standards of the people involved. I know of people of the highest standards but they are few in number.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stanley View Post
    Chinese Walls shlte does not work, during the day the lads are in separate offices and dont exchange e-mail and meomos - no trace, but once they leave the office and head for the pub or elsewhere - gloves off and they go to confession.

    Whats good for these lads is good for Goldmans and hard to see if the Irish boss of Goldmans is not listening/evaluating all sides, you gotta think they have a UK buyer lined up but then again probably another Chinese Wall that buyer is hiding behind.
    And the first question in the pub? How do we generate more fee income? What side winning is most profitable? Oh! Did I bring the wrong lap-top home?

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