Follow @PoliticsIE
 
 
 
Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 46

Thread: Bill Of Rights

  1. #1
    Politics.ie Member Cruimh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    County Londonderry
    Posts
    35,433
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)

    Default Bill Of Rights

    "sinnfeinireland" retweeted the below earlier:


    MartinaAMLA

    I met with the HR Consortum today. A Bill of Rights for the North is a key unfulfilled commitment arising from the Good Friday Agreement.
    one small problem for Sinn Féin - there is NO commitment in the GFA to a Bill of Rights for Northern Ireland.

    There is a commitment to look at the possibility of Westminster drawing up a Bill of Rights for NI. But there is no commitment to enact one.

    pages 20-21 GFA

    4. The new Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission (see paragraph 5 below) will be invited to consult and to advise on the scope for defining, in Westminster legislation, rights supplementary to those in the European Convention on Human Rights, to reflect the particular circumstances of Northern Ireland, drawing as appropriate on international instruments and experience. These additional rights to reflect the principles of mutual respect for the identity and ethos of both communities and parity of esteem, and - taken together with the ECHR - to constitute a Bill of Rights for Northern Ireland.



    So - there we have it - the NIHCR is to be invited to consult and consider the scope for.... But that is as far as it goes.

    Last edited by Cruimh; 21st September 2010 at 01:45 PM.

  2. #2
    Politics.ie Member eoghanacht's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    sitting on my toilet.
    Posts
    33,357
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Jeez you are a pedant.
    Britain operated death squads - ''97% of the Loyalists I interviewed were working directly for the State.'' - Nuala O'Loan. #FreeAhedTamimi

  3. #3
    Politics.ie Member Cruimh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    County Londonderry
    Posts
    35,433
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eoghanacht View Post
    Jeez you are a pedant.
    The GFA is a binding legal document.

    If SF had wanted an obligation for a Bill of Rights they should have insisted on one. We spent years hammering out EXACTLY what was agreed and they signed up to it.

    Bad negotiating combined with dishonesty now.

    They cannot misrepresent the GFA by claiming there is a commitment to a Bill of Rights. There is no such commitment

  4. #4
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    275
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    To be honest, the ECHR is so broad and deep that it is hard to imagine what could be added to it in any case, even in the specific setting of NI.

    Sounds like someone is just ticking boxes.
    I am Kilrain of the 20th Maine and I damn all gentlemen
    Whose only worth is their father's name and the sweat of a workin' man

  5. #5
    Politics.ie Member corelli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4,522
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruimh View Post
    The GFA is a binding legal document.

    If SF had wanted an obligation for a Bill of Rights they should have insisted on one. We spent years hammering out EXACTLY what was agreed and they signed up to it.

    Bad negotiating combined with dishonesty now.

    They cannot misrepresent the GFA by claiming there is a commitment to a Bill of Rights. There is no such commitment
    And who is it binding on?

    Please note, I am leading you up a darkened alley and depending on your answer, you may get mugged!!
    "......... we must sometimes listen to those who, consumed with zeal, have scant judgment or balance. To such ones the modern world is nothing but betrayal and ruin.........We feel bound to disagree with these prophets of doom who are forever forecasting calamity -- as though the world's end were imminent."

  6. #6
    Politics.ie Member corelli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4,522
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pujols View Post
    To be honest, the ECHR is so broad and deep that it is hard to imagine what could be added to it in any case, even in the specific setting of NI.

    Sounds like someone is just ticking boxes.
    They want judicable economic, social and cultural rights in the new, putative, bill of rights. Something no western government in their right mind will accede to.
    "......... we must sometimes listen to those who, consumed with zeal, have scant judgment or balance. To such ones the modern world is nothing but betrayal and ruin.........We feel bound to disagree with these prophets of doom who are forever forecasting calamity -- as though the world's end were imminent."

  7. #7
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    275
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    I suppose you are right Corelli,

    To be honest they make me despair; the whole movement towards ESC rights and the meaningless 'right to development' have done so much to make undermine the effectiveness of civil and political rights and allowed the 'infringers' to get away with so much.

    But that pass was sold a long time ago.
    I am Kilrain of the 20th Maine and I damn all gentlemen
    Whose only worth is their father's name and the sweat of a workin' man

  8. #8
    Politics.ie Member Cruimh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    County Londonderry
    Posts
    35,433
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by corelli View Post
    And who is it binding on?

    Please note, I am leading you up a darkened alley and depending on your answer, you may get mugged!!
    The Signatories

    Seriously though - It's unacceptable for SF to claim there is an obligation which does not exist in the GFA.

    Of Course SF have said they view the agreement as transitional but they did say they support it's full implementation.

    But in this case they are going beyond that and demanding implementation of something which was not agreed.

  9. #9
    Politics.ie Member Cruimh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    County Londonderry
    Posts
    35,433
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by corelli View Post
    They want judicable economic, social and cultural rights in the new, putative, bill of rights.
    That is fair enough - but it is thoroughly dishonest to claim there is a commitment in the GFA.

  10. #10
    Politics.ie Member corelli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4,522
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruimh View Post
    The Signatories

    Seriously though - It's unacceptable for SF to claim there is an obligation which does not exist in the GFA.

    Of Course SF have said they view the agreement as transitional but they did say they support it's full implementation.

    But in this case they are going beyond that and demanding implementation of something which was not agreed.
    It's only binding on the signatories, ie, the two Sovereign Governments, so long as they both agree to be so bound. Additionally one of the foremost principles in interpreting an international agreements, is that it's interpretation and meaning is decided by the signatories thereto. So, legally speaking, if the two Governments say there is no absolute commitment to a Bill of Rights, there is not such commitment. Additionally, the agreement is not judicable so anything the two Governments decide is the final word on the matter.

    I also, just so you know, agree with you that there is no such commitment. Merely a vague commitment to advise on the possibility of such a bill.

    It's very similar to the commitment vis the proposed Bill of Rights for the Island of Ireland.
    "......... we must sometimes listen to those who, consumed with zeal, have scant judgment or balance. To such ones the modern world is nothing but betrayal and ruin.........We feel bound to disagree with these prophets of doom who are forever forecasting calamity -- as though the world's end were imminent."

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •