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Thread: Why was our independence such a failure?

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    Politics.ie Member Schomberg's Avatar
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    Default Why was our independence such a failure?

    In all honesty, what went wrong?

    Too much clerical control?
    Lack of experience in government?
    ?

    Would some more "neutral" party like Labour have done a better job?

    social backwardness, economic collapse and utter failure to do anything to fix it, families breeding just to send their offspring abroad to send back money so they could eat...

    Without the European Union, heaven knows where we'd be...

    Before the usual suspects come out, accusing me of trolling for asking the question, I'm just genuinely interested in what the more economically minded think were out short comings and why we went "african" on the whole independence thing...
    What have British in Ireland contributed to Ireland? Nothing of the scale that the Irish have contributed to Britain. - Runswithwind.

  2. #2

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    Local Tribalism. National Docility. Mass Silence and inaction.
    Fianna Fail - The Anti Democratic Party & The Anti Constitutional Party. Traitors of Irishmen and Irishwomen.

  3. #3
    Gadjodilo
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    A relative gain in standard of living that's pretty much unprecedented in Europe is not failure - this despite the lack of huge oil resources such as the UK had.

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    Vested self interests, nimbyism and parish pump politics.
    ''The tattoo has a profound meaning: the superficiality of modern manís existence.'' - Theodore Dalrymple

    "Any fool can make something complicated. It takes a genius to make it simple." - Woody Guthrie

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    Politics.ie Member Schomberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gadjodilo View Post
    A relative gain in standard of living that's pretty much unprecedented in Europe is not failure - this despite the lack of huge oil resources such as the UK had.
    all thanks to the European Union. The question though is why we were so lost for so long after gaining independence and why we did nothing but go deeper and deeper into a black hole...
    What have British in Ireland contributed to Ireland? Nothing of the scale that the Irish have contributed to Britain. - Runswithwind.

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    The state of the Republic of Ireland is not a failure, nor a failed state.

    It has problems, undoubtedly, and these problems (mostly economic) will get worse.

    But this does not equal 'failed state'.

    Recessions (and depressions) are a feature of Capitalism. Ergo, every capitalist state will have cycles. By this extension, this would mean that every capitalist state has failed at one or more points of its existence. Which is patently nonsense.

    Afailed state is Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Somalia, and nearer to home, good old Northern Ireland.
    ROI is light years away from that. We're not Germany, but we aren't Somalia either.

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    Politics.ie Member Twin Towers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schomberg View Post
    In all honesty, what went wrong?
    We have never had a democracy. We have only ever had censorship and bogus representation.

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    This one has potential providing everybody plays nice. Fair dues to schomberg for posting it.

    I agree totally with you re the EU. I think the comment about Africa was close to the mark. Our constitution enshrined tribalism with the level of representation and the PR STV system which has choked off the development of national politics and rewarded "local" politicians in a disproportionate manner.

  9. #9
    Gadjodilo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schomberg View Post
    all thanks to the European Union. The question though is why we were so lost for so long after gaining independence and why we did nothing but go deeper and deeper into a black hole...
    No, it wasn't all thanks to the EU. Transfers that amount to a couple of percentage points of GDP do not create growth rates of 8-10%.

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    Politics.ie Member Schomberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meriwether View Post
    The state of the Republic of Ireland is not a failure, nor a failed state.

    It has problems, undoubtedly, and these problems (mostly economic) will get worse.

    But this does not equal 'failed state'.

    Recessions (and depressions) are a feature of Capitalism. Ergo, every capitalist state will have cycles. By this extension, this would mean that every capitalist state has failed at one or more points of its existence. Which is patently nonsense.

    Afailed state is Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Somalia, and nearer to home, good old Northern Ireland.
    ROI is light years away from that. We're not Germany, but we aren't Somalia either.
    that's not what I was saying. things aren't *that* bad now, but until we joined the EU things were diabolical. why did we fail to make something of our independence alone?
    What have British in Ireland contributed to Ireland? Nothing of the scale that the Irish have contributed to Britain. - Runswithwind.

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