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Thread: Your Taoisigh Rankings

  1. #1
    Politics.ie Member RahenyFG's Avatar
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    Default Your Taoisigh Rankings

    Just wondering what ranking people who would the taoisigh we've had, including W.T Cosgrave.

    Here's my ranking

    1. Sean Lemass
    2. W.T Cosgrave
    3. Jack Lynch
    4. Bertie Ahern
    5. Eamon De Valera
    6. John A Costello
    7. Garret FitzGerald
    8. John Bruton
    9. Liam Cosgrave
    10. Charles Haughey
    11. Albert Reynolds
    12. Brian Cowen
    Last edited by RahenyFG; 26th December 2010 at 05:43 PM.

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    Politics.ie Member jpc's Avatar
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    2and 4 were disasters. You are right with 1 ,3,5. 11 should be at 4
    Its only a chat, we ain't the world council.

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    1. Sean Lemass
    2. Charlie Haughey (87-91)
    3. John Bruton
    4. Eamon de Valera
    5. Bertie Ahern
    6. WT Cosgrave
    7. Albert Reynolds
    8. Garrett Fitzgerald
    9. Liam Cosgrave
    10. John A Costello (Unremarkable)
    11. Jack Lynch
    12. Brian Cowen

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    Politics.ie Member oggy's Avatar
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    1 Eamon De Valera
    2 W T Cosgrave
    3 Sean Lemass
    4 Bertie Ahern
    5 Brian Cowen
    6 Charlie Haughey
    7 Albert Reynolds
    8 Garret Fitzgerald
    9 John Costello
    10 John Bruton

    Dev and W T between them stabilised at the most difficult time

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    Aarrrrgh what a collection of idiots, crooks, traitors, lunatics and bumbling non-entities!

    I could pick 12 random people off the street and they'd be of more use to the country than any of our inbred moronic political class.

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    The good:

    1. Lemass (arrived into office ten years too late but promoted a newer group of ministers who were allowed their head and, together with Whitaker, revolutionised the state's outlook and made efforts to lead us out of isolation)

    The mixed:

    2. de Valera (reconciled a large proportion of the population to the state through the 1937 constitution, stood up to efforts to overthrow democracy in the early 30s by people who should have known much better, made a genuine improvement to the lives of many of the less well-off through investment in housing and improvements in welfare and land reform - there's a reason why the working-classes and poorer farmers were traditionally loyal to FF - after neglect from a previous government, arguably buffered the state from the worst economically in the 30s through protectionism and import substitution, kept the state out of a war in which it would have been insufficiently defended and internally divided, but then failed to move with the times, retaining protectionism after it had outlived its usefulness and allowing the state to become insular and isolated. He may have been too close to clerical influence to our liking, but he was not exceptional for that period compared with those who preceded or succeeded him. Had he left office after 1945 or even after the 1948 electoral defeat, his reputation would be improved today.)
    3. Cosgrave (Sr.) (set the institutions of the state - courts, Gardaí, democratic institutions - in place, made progress on economic development with the Shannon scheme, and allowed a transition to government by his civil war opponents, but also institutionalised much of the repressive clerical control - bans on contraception and divorce, censorship of books and films - that is nowadays lazily ascribed to de Valera and followed an excessively laissez-faire economic course that left the less well-off to rot)
    4. Lynch (personally honest, managed things through the early 1970s, but no real vision and allowed a needless financial crisis in his last two years by politically unnecessary promises)
    5. Haughey (intellectually brilliant but utterly self-serving and lacking any kind of conscience, disastrous in his first period in office but was fortunate in that his final period of government coincided with an economic upturn in the UK, but did put some of the foundations for later economic growth in place)
    6. FitzGerald (well-intentioned and capable of being inspiring, did achieve the Anglo-Irish Agreement, but was ineffective as a leader during economic hard times and failed to achieve most of his plans for social change)
    7= Bruton (led one of the best governments in recent times although it was a collective rather than individual achievement, and the judgement of anyone who allowed himself to be influenced by Eoghan Harris needs to be questioned)
    7= Reynolds (put in the groundwork which was to lead to the GFA, ignoring much of "respectable" opinion in the process, and led a couple of economically sane governments under which the economy started to power ahead, but then allowed his pr1ckliness to provoke meaningless quarrels leading to their destruction. Both he and Bruton are marked down for only having short periods in office.)

    More bad than good:

    9. Ahern (only the genuine achievement of the GFA saves him from being the worst ever, a man who took a prospering economy and allowed it to be turned into a Ponzi scheme by a bunch of political and financial shysters)

    The bad:

    10. Costello (a non-entity, allowed excessive deference to the Catholic Church and medical profession to derail real healthcare reform in his first term, and achieved nothing at all in his second)
    11. Cosgrave (Jr.) (ineffective during an economic crisis, sabotaged his own government on contraception, and allowed an authoritarian climate of censorship, police brutality and state bullying to take hold)
    12. Cowen (was left holding the doomsday machine built under Ahern's watch when it exploded - having failed to make any real effort to defuse it during his time as Finance minister - and then made things even worse by following policies which have almost certainly destroyed the general welfare of the state for the next generation)
    Last edited by Observer; 5th September 2010 at 03:34 AM.

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    Politics.ie Member Rocket Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SideysGhost View Post
    Aarrrrgh what a collection of idiots, crooks, traitors, lunatics and bumbling non-entities!

    I could pick 12 random people off the street and they'd be of more use to the country than any of our inbred moronic political class.
    Yeah, looking at the list is actually quite depressing. We really have not been well served by our choices for Taiseach.
    Lemass was very good and WT Cosgrave provided steady leadership when it was needed.
    Garrett had the potential to be a very good Taoiseach but for a number of reasons failed to reach that potential.
    As for the rest of them they vary from dull and uninspiring to crooked and incompetent.

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    Politics.ie Member LiberalFG's Avatar
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    1.WT
    2. Lemass
    3. Bruton
    4. Reynolds
    5. FitzGerald
    6 CJH - He was good despite being a crook
    7. Costello
    8. Cosgrave
    9. Lynch
    10. Dev
    11. Ahern
    12. Cowen.

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    Politics.ie Member RightCentreLeft's Avatar
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    John Bruton without a doubt was the greatest Taoiseach since Lemass. He presided over the beginnings of real economic growth in this country. I often wonder how things would have turned out if he had been re-elected as Taoiseach in 97'. However like all politicians he was far from perfect.

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    Politics.ie Member Cruimh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Observer View Post
    The good:

    1. Lemass (arrived into office ten years too late but promoted a newer group of ministers who were allowed their head and, together with Whitaker, revolutionised the state's outlook and made efforts to lead us out of isolation)

    The mixed:

    2. de Valera (reconciled a large proportion of the population to the state through the 1937 constitution, stood up to efforts to overthrow democracy in the early 30s by people who should have known much better, made a genuine improvement to the lives of many of the less well-off through investment in housing and improvements in welfare and land reform - there's a reason why the working-classes and poorer farmers were traditionally loyal to FF - after neglect from a previous government, arguably buffered the state from the worst economically in the 30s through protectionism and import substitution, kept the state out of a war in which it would have been insufficiently defended and internally divided, but then failed to move with the times, retaining protectionism after it had outlived its usefulness and allowing the state to become insular and isolated. He may have been too close to clerical influence to our liking, but he was not exceptional for that period compared with those who preceded or succeeded him. Had he left office after 1945 or even after the 1948 electoral defeat, his reputation would be improved today.)
    3. Cosgrave (Sr.) (set the institutions of the state - courts, Gardaí, democratic institutions - in place, made progress on economic development with the Shannon scheme, and allowed a transition to government by his civil war opponents, but also institutionalised much of the repressive clerical control - bans on contraception and divorce, censorship of books and films - that is nowadays lazily ascribed to de Valera and followed an excessively laissez-faire economic course that left the less well-off to rot)
    4. Lynch (personally honest, managed things through the early 1970s, but no real vision and allowed a needless financial crisis in his last two years by politically unnecessary promises)
    5. Haughey (intellectually brilliant but utterly self-serving and lacking any kind of conscience, disastrous in his first period in office but was fortunate in that his final period of government coincided with an economic upturn in the UK, but did put some of the foundations for later economic growth in place)
    6. FitzGerald (well-intentioned and capable of being inspiring, did achieve the Anglo-Irish achievement, but was ineffective as a leader during economic hard times and failed to achieve most of his plans for social change)
    7= Bruton (led one of the best governments in recent times although it was a collective rather than individual achievement, and the judgement of anyone who allowed himself to be influenced by Eoghan Harris needs to be questioned)
    7= Reynolds (put in the groundwork which was to lead to the GFA, ignoring much of "respectable" opinion in the process, and led a couple of economically sane governments under which the economy started to power ahead, but then allowed his pr1ckliness to provoke meaningless quarrels leading to their destruction. Both he and Bruton are marked down for only having short periods in office.)

    More bad than good:

    9. Ahern (only the genuine achievement of the GFA saves him from being the worst ever, a man who took a prospering economy and allowed it to be turned into a Ponzi scheme by a bunch of political and financial shysters)

    The bad:

    10. Costello (a non-entity, allowed excessive deference to the Catholic Church and medical profession to derail real healthcare reform in his first term, and achieved nothing at all in his second)
    11. Cosgrave (Jr.) (ineffective during an economic crisis, sabotaged his own government on contraception, and allowed an authoritarian climate of censorship, police brutality and state bullying to take hold)
    12. Cowen (was left holding the doomsday machine built under Ahern's watch when it exploded - having failed to make any real effort to defuse it during his time as Finance minister - and then made things even worse by following policies which have almost certainly destroyed the general welfare of the state for the next generation)
    Certainly fits in with the impression I get though from what I've seen the first three would be interchangeable.

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