Follow @PoliticsIE
 
 
 
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17

Thread: Company Law and the ODCE - time for reform?

  1. #1
    Politics.ie Member MsAnneThrope's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    pɹɐʍɹoℲ ƃuıoפ
    Posts
    1,819
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Company Law and the ODCE - time for reform?

    I was on the website of the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement (ODCE). It's not clear to me if they are simply not updating their website or that they're just not very successful at prosecuting. There are only 2 prosecutions shown for all of 2010. Of these, one is particularly farcical, to me anyway.

    Contrary to Section 187 (1) of the Companies Act 1990, Mr. Byrne, carrying on business under the name and style of Byrne and Associates, acted as auditor of seven companies when not qualified to do so. A total of nine charges were before the Court relating to Mr. Byrne having acted as auditor for one financial year in the case of five of the companies and for two financial years in the case of two other companies.

    Outcome:
    On a plea of guilty, the Court convicted the defendant on seven of the charges, pursuant to Section 187 (6) and (9) of the Companies Act 1990 and imposed fines of €500 in respect of the each of the seven charges, totaling €3,500
    €500 for acting as an auditor when not qualified to do so. Total €3,500. I'm scared to ask how much the costs of this 'successful prosecution' were. What kind of a deterrent is that for other people to pass themselves off as qualified auditors, or accountants or tax advisors etc? Imagine being able to charge people perhaps €50k for services you're not authorised/qualified to offer and, if caught, get fined a paltry amount and keep the difference?

    In the only other prosecution case listed for 2010 a construction company was fined €1,900 for failing to keep proper accounting books.

    Even enshrined in our new NAMA legislation is the derisory fine of €1,000 for lobbying NAMA. €1,000! They must be quaking in their boots! Who on earth thought €1,000, in this day and age, was a suitable deterrent for trying to influence perhaps the most important agency in the history of the State?

    Is the ODCE and Company Law in Ireland up to the job in 2010 and beyond? From what I can see there are serious questions to be asked and some serious reform of existing laws badly needed. Thoughts?
    We all love animals. Why do we call some 'pets' and others 'dinner'?

  2. #2
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    17,119
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Judging by what we can see, corporate regulation via the ODCE is somewhere on a par with banking regulation under Mr Neary.

    Harsh, but is the evidence pointing any other way?

    And at that, they even claim we expect too much of them:

    http://www.politics.ie/justice/13308...-too-much.html

    Spancelled by Bertie's refusal to give them staff they needed for minimum effectiveness, they really should call the government's bluff and resign.

    http://www.politics.ie/justice/45664...-fail-did.html
    "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair.

  3. #3
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    252
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Is the problem with the law, or with the implementation of the law? ODCE have quite extensive powers. What's not clear is why we don't see more prosecutions.

  4. #4
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    4,461
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Irish corporate law is designed to make corruption legal.

  5. #5
    Politics.ie Member Pauli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Pfäffikon, Kanton Schwyz, Switzerland.
    Posts
    1,181
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Why are people surprised that the ODCE doesn't function properly? Nothing else does so why should this be an exception? The only thing that marks this out for particular attention is that the FF/PD government under Bartie Ahorn denied it the resources it needed to function properly and that this became public knowledge.
    Fianna Fail - The Loss of Sovereignty Party.

  6. #6

    Default

    There will soon be no companies left in Ireland. Just one big convenient corpocracy. No need to worry about company law.
    “The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.” - Friedrich A. Hayek

  7. #7
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    dublin
    Posts
    8,148
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MsAnneThrope View Post
    I was on the website of the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement (ODCE). It's not clear to me if they are simply not updating their website or that they're just not very successful at prosecuting. There are only 2 prosecutions shown for all of 2010. Of these, one is particularly farcical, to me anyway.



    €500 for acting as an auditor when not qualified to do so. Total €3,500. I'm scared to ask how much the costs of this 'successful prosecution' were. What kind of a deterrent is that for other people to pass themselves off as qualified auditors, or accountants or tax advisors etc? Imagine being able to charge people perhaps €50k for services you're not authorised/qualified to offer and, if caught, get fined a paltry amount and keep the difference?

    In the only other prosecution case listed for 2010 a construction company was fined €1,900 for failing to keep proper accounting books.

    Even enshrined in our new NAMA legislation is the derisory fine of €1,000 for lobbying NAMA. €1,000! They must be quaking in their boots! Who on earth thought €1,000, in this day and age, was a suitable deterrent for trying to influence perhaps the most important agency in the history of the State?

    Is the ODCE and Company Law in Ireland up to the job in 2010 and beyond? From what I can see there are serious questions to be asked and some serious reform of existing laws badly needed. Thoughts?
    Fine of 1000 euro for lobbying Nama at a time when Noel Dempsey tells us that 100,000 euro is chickenfeed---if the ODCE is not adequately staffed to carry out its remit the Director should issue a statement to that effect and offer hisresignation if the position is not rectified within a short time span.

  8. #8
    Politics.ie Member MsAnneThrope's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    pɹɐʍɹoℲ ƃuıoפ
    Posts
    1,819
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by He3 View Post
    Judging by what we can see, corporate regulation via the ODCE is somewhere on a par with banking regulation under Mr Neary.

    Harsh, but is the evidence pointing any other way?
    Unfortunately it is beginning to look like a fair comparison.
    We all love animals. Why do we call some 'pets' and others 'dinner'?

  9. #9
    Politics.ie Member MsAnneThrope's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    pɹɐʍɹoℲ ƃuıoפ
    Posts
    1,819
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Found the total of all fines resulting from prosecutions by the ODCE for all of 2008. It's an earth-shattering €46,000.

    A record amount of fines were imposed, totalling just over €46,000.
    And this was a "record amount"

    The Sunday Business Post reported, back in 2005, about the perception of the ODCE:

    The office has been criticised for focusing on company law breaches by small business operators, instead of going after larger firms. The majority of prosecutions have been taken against low-profile people.

    The investigation into the secret Ansbacher deposits many have yielded tens of million of euro in back taxes, interest and penalties for the exchequer, but it has not resulted in any prosecutions for breaches of company law.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose...
    We all love animals. Why do we call some 'pets' and others 'dinner'?

  10. #10
    Moderator Munnkeyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    In a tree.
    Posts
    7,327
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MsAnneThrope View Post
    Found the total of all fines resulting from prosecutions by the ODCE for all of 2008. It's an earth-shattering €46,000.



    And this was a "record amount"

    The Sunday Business Post reported, back in 2005, about the perception of the ODCE:



    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose...

    Their budget jumped 33.5% from 2008 to 2009
    From €4.34 million (2008) to 5.8 million (2009)

    I'm trying to do a big quango spread over here.
    http://www.politics.ie/political-ref...ireland-2.html
    Flash a-ah - King of the impossible

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •