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Thread: Why Most Canadian Gays and Lesbians are Choosing NOT to Marry

  1. #1
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    Default Why Most Canadian Gays and Lesbians are Choosing NOT to Marry

    From Xtra! - Canada's Gay and Lesbian Webiste :

    The article lists some of the reasons Canadian gays and lesbians are not getting married even though they tore the country limb from limb to get it legalised.

    These discussions within the gay community rarely find their way into the mainstream press.


    Why most Canadian gays and lesbians are choosing not to marry

    "...same-sex marriage is a radical act....it's an assimilationist strategy...For anti-assimilationists, same-sex marriage represents a reform movement that seeks to prove that queers are 'just like everyone else.' But many of us are not like everyone else - and unapologetically so.

    ...Many queers worry that the cultural adoption of same-sex marriage will lead to a domestication of queer culture.... But does our vibrant queer culture depend on marginality? Hopefully not. And, as Dan Savage has pointed out, marriage rarely meant monogamy for hets, so why would it make us sexually exclusive?

    ... queers have a distance from which to critique it [marriage], as well as freedom to create the relationships we want....owning property or having a pet is more of a commitment than a marriage...we have built cultures and communities independent of the straight world, developing and adopting our own creative alternatives: chosen families, open relationships, multi-parent families and domestic partnerships, just to name a few...

    ...Because we have all the same rights and responsibilities as common-law partners that we would have if we married, there is no need to marry," she says ... in Canada, common-law couples, gay or straight, are entitled to survivor benefits, post-breakup financial support, input into partner care, family and medical leave, adoption opportunities, immigration sponsorship and inheritance rights. ...

    ...Gay lawyer Ken Smith points to another disincentive to legalize vows. With marriage rights come obligations; you can't opt in or out at will....

    ...Many queers regard marriage as an oppressive patriarchal institution and have no interest in participating in it," findlay notes. "My partner and I, for example, decided that we would not marry unless there was an important political reason to do so. As my partner says, 'We've been living in sin for too long to change now!'"

    ...I believe that the more progressive political approach is for the individual to be the basis of social organization instead of the couple...A culture that values the individual instead of the couple as the base unit would offer more support for singlehood and single parenting, for starters...I'd like to see more information, resources and support for all forms of relationships: single, polyamorous, coupled, friendship, chosen family or whatever our queer hearts can dream up."
    If being honest, most gay advocacy groups would quietly admit that the gay marriage issue is only a political tool to normalise gay sex.

    One of the most popular gay blogs "Joe my God" said this of Proposition 8, in May’09 :

    The survey they [people against gay marriage] cite, a 1996 study by gay researchers Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen reportedly concludes that "the cheating ratio of ‘married’ gay males, given enough time, approaches 100%." The Maine Marriage Alliance does note that this "outside sexual activity" occurs by agreement, but really, so what? Joe. My. God.
    I know this thread will not be popular in some sections of the Irish Gay community, but it's time for a lot more openness and honesty in this argument. Do they really want legally bound monogamy ? Let's face it the Gay community were never into marriage. It’s a political tool, a trophy.

  2. #2
    MrFunkyBoogaloo
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    It all depends on what your preference is. If you so choose to get married, well and good. If not, well and good. Canada has, as the report points out, better common-law legislation than Ireland has but at least those in Canada who do not wish to marry can choose to at some point, if they so wish.

    Do you speak on behalf of the entire gay community btw? I've yet to meet anyone who does as even the gay community, again evidenced by the post, is divided on the issue.


    Edit; I also not that you (selectively) left out many of the reasons why Canadian gay couples choose not to marry. Was that in effect to prove the point you attempt to make so vacuously?
    Last edited by MrFunkyBoogaloo; 13th August 2010 at 12:17 AM.

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    Interesting but irrelevant.

    The most important issue is the freedom to choose whether to marry or not. Many straight people choose not to marry for similar reasons but it does not take from the freedom to exercise the right.

    This is a human rights issue and until it is seen in this context, the debate will always be skewed.
    I am Kilrain of the 20th Maine and I damn all gentlemen
    Whose only worth is their father's name and the sweat of a workin' man

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    Default Canada not to marry

    I am glad that a few people still refuse to be bound by the for or against

    type of argument so frequently imposed by the Irish press and even God forfend P.ie.

    I am one of those that see marriage as oppressive hypocritical and un reformable.

    As someoe in my mid thirties I would hope that by the time I am in my seventies I will have
    lived to see a sharp decline in the number of people bothering with or being sucked in by marriage.

    While I don't care really if Gay marriage is brought in or not I certainly will not advocate for it.

    Of course I don't see myself as campagaining in a way to whack people over the head with the idea of Don't marry I still will hope that in subtle ways politic drift and reasonable sober means I will help to disuade some from marriage.If people of any orientation want to partake in rituas of two gold rings , promising to do this that and the other and allow a gang

    of free loaders to eat and drink them out of hose and home then I can only feel sorry for them.
    John in Cork ya boy ya

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luigi Vampa View Post
    From Xtra! - Canada's Gay and Lesbian Webiste :

    The article lists some of the reasons Canadian gays and lesbians are not getting married even though they tore the country limb from limb to get it legalised.

    These discussions within the gay community rarely find their way into the mainstream press.


    If being honest, most gay advocacy groups would quietly admit that the gay marriage issue is only a political tool to normalise gay sex.

    One of the most popular gay blogs "Joe my God" said this of Proposition 8, in Mayí09 :



    I know this thread will not be popular in some sections of the Irish Gay community, but it's time for a lot more openness and honesty in this argument. Do they really want legally bound monogamy ? Let's face it the Gay community were never into marriage. Itís a political tool, a trophy.
    You have quite the flair for the dramatic. Have you considered homosexuality?
    Repeal the 27th.

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    Politics.ie Member ne0ica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luigi Vampa View Post
    From Xtra! - Canada's Gay and Lesbian Webiste :

    The article lists some of the reasons Canadian gays and lesbians are not getting married even though they tore the country limb from limb to get it legalised.

    These discussions within the gay community rarely find their way into the mainstream press.


    If being honest, most gay advocacy groups would quietly admit that the gay marriage issue is only a political tool to normalise gay sex.

    One of the most popular gay blogs "Joe my God" said this of Proposition 8, in May’09 :



    I know this thread will not be popular in some sections of the Irish Gay community, but it's time for a lot more openness and honesty in this argument. Do they really want legally bound monogamy ? Let's face it the Gay community were never into marriage. It’s a political tool, a trophy.
    I thinks it time the gay marriage fanatics were honest with themselves and everybody else and admmit that gay marriage is a political tool

  7. #7
    MrFunkyBoogaloo
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    Quote Originally Posted by ne0ica View Post
    I thinks it time the gay marriage fanatics were honest with themselves and everybody else and admmit that gay marriage is a political tool
    Perhaps you, or the OP, might explain how it is a "political tool"?

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by ne0ica View Post
    I thinks it time the gay marriage fanatics were honest with themselves and everybody else and admmit that gay marriage is a political tool
    Just look at these horrible fanatics:

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOYLHaRPM8I&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - The Wedding Matters: Matt and Sean (married October 15, 2008)[/ame]

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wlRfS24dpo&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - The Wedding Matters: Felicia and Liz (married October 4, 2008)[/ame]

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zsdalWZgq4&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - The Wedding Matters: Barry Wally (daughter Lisa married September 6, 2008)[/ame]

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRFLHddVGR8&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - The Wedding Matters: Xavier and Michael (married October 18, 2008)[/ame]

    Machiavelli himself would be impressed!
    Repeal the 27th.

  9. #9
    MrFunkyBoogaloo
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    What's this? Luigi and neoica not prepared to back up their statements. Why ever not?

    And one wonders why a judge overturned Prop8?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFunkyBoogaloo View Post
    Do you speak on behalf of the entire gay community btw?
    No, no more than you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFunkyBoogaloo View Post
    I also not that you (selectively) left out many of the reasons why Canadian gay couples choose not to marry. Was that in effect to prove the point you attempt to make so vacuously?
    That side of the argument has already been heard many times, I like to hear other views.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    You have quite the flair for the dramatic. Have you considered homosexuality?
    Thanks. Ad hominem is especially non effective when your not insulting the other party.

    Quote Originally Posted by ne0ica View Post
    I thinks it time the gay marriage fanatics were honest with themselves and everybody else and admmit that gay marriage is a political tool
    Marriage is dead, and being Gay was never about monogamy, or desperately trying to be like the "breeders"

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