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Thread: Ditch the proposed Childrens Rights Amendment.

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    Default Ditch the proposed Childrens Rights Amendment.

    It's time to ditch the proposed Childrens Rights Amendment to the Constitution which will allow unscrupulous social workers unfettered access to your children and the right to seize children on spurious grounds.

    Here is a perfect example of what will happen.

    It's time to bring family law to book - Telegraph

    The more I learn about this scandal, the more I understand why, in April, an Appeal Court judge, Lord Aikens, savaged the actions of Devon county council social workers in a forced adoption case as having been "more like Stalin's Russia or Mao's China than the west of England". The council's lawyers were told to read a judgment by Lord Justice Wall, now head of the High Court's Family Division, which condemned Greenwich social workers as "enthusiastic removers of children".

    There is an Irish dimension to one of the cases.

    It emerged that the doctor they saw had reported her suspicion about the child's fracture to Coventry social workers. The couple were put on police bail, ordering them to surrender their passports, forbidding them to be unsupervised in the presence of anyone under 16, and only allowing them to sleep in one of two named houses (the other being the father's family home). But because no charges had been brought, the social workers allowed the baby into the care of its Irish grandmother, a respected primary school headmistress. To avoid the baby being seized, she took it to her family home in Dublin, where it has been supported by a band of relatives.

    Determined not to be thwarted, Coventry's social workers then asked the Irish courts to rule – in a case to be heard this week – that the baby must be sent back to them in England. The hospital doctor has meanwhile contacted the Irish medical authorities demanding that in no way must they carry out specific medical tests on the baby which might account for its injury.


    Do you think the Irish Courts should refuse to return the baby and tell the Coventry social workers to get stuffed?

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    Totally agree with you SirHenry. look at the State's record when it comes to child care, in cahoots with the Roman Catholic church and then we have the latest scandals with the HSE.

    This is a terrible amendment but I guess people don't see it that way. What they see is the government is doing something so therefore it's alright.

    Of course it will be passed eventually.

    Look at the Barnados poll, the question is: Do you believe in changing the Irish Constitution to finally stand up for children's rights?

    What a loaded question a bit like have you stopped beating your wife yet?


    Barnardos - Ireland's leading children's charity: Children's Rights in the Constitution

    Also may I add since when are the courts and medical practioners of Ireland under British jurisdiction?
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    Politics.ie Member Clanrickard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirHenryGrattan View Post
    It's time to ditch the proposed Childrens Rights Amendment to the Constitution which will allow unscrupulous social workers unfettered access to your children and the right to seize children on spurious grounds.
    There is something deeply troubling about the way this is being pushed. I get the whiff of busy body social engineering rather than genuine child welfare.

    Here is a perfect example of what will happen.

    Do you think the Irish Courts should refuse to return the baby and tell the Coventry social workers to get stuffed?
    Absolutely so.

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    Irrespective of the facts involving the parents, which are to be determined, it should be a matter of concern that a child was taken from the UK, by her grandmother into whose care she was entrusted, while investigations are ongoing.

    Given that she was put into her care and the first thing she does is remove her from the jurisdiction, the Irish courts should order her return to the UK immediately.

    Removing a child from a jurisdiction to frustrate the course of law is a very dubious.
    practice and may have Hague Convention implications.

    What if the relatives in Dublin declined to return her to her parents a la Elian Gonzalez?

    A recipe for disaster.
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    Politics.ie Member jpc's Avatar
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    It is another "look we are seen to be doing something decisive" waste of time.
    There is plenty of law pertaining to child care.
    Enforce it.
    Its only a chat, we ain't the world council.

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    Politics.ie Member Half Nelson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpc View Post
    It is another "look we are seen to be doing something decisive" waste of time.
    There is plenty of law pertaining to child care.
    Enforce it.
    I think it's more a case of "we need an excuse for having done nothing".

    When the HSE claims it was bullied by a little old lady from North Dublin then you just know it was running out of excuses.
    "We’re entering an era of outsourced censorship, where the terrible things once done by the state are now done by Silicon Valley suits."

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    Default Adoptions prevented

    Quote Originally Posted by jpc View Post
    It is another "look we are seen to be doing something decisive" waste of time.
    There is plenty of law pertaining to child care.
    Enforce it.
    My understanding is that children from troubled homes who would be better off adopted remain in limbo for years in foster care homes because their parents,usually completely dysfunctional people, retain the right under Irish law to resume parenting and refuse to let go. The childrens' allowance money incentivises holding on to children for the money. As children get older,their chances for adoption are reduced and it becomes more difficult for them to bond with adopting parents.

    In the UK,the main problems are the secrecy of children's courts which can conceal injustices, the incompetence of social workers many of whom aren't sufficiently educated there,and the excessive caseloads and lack of support for social workers in dealing with violent parents.

    Court secrecy may be necessary. Very traumatic Solomon like judgments have to be made on splitting families,judgements that could feed tabloid frenzies. Inevitably,some judgements are mistaken but that shouldn't mean that the judges should be vilified in the tabloids.

    That said,courts should be very slow to separate children from parents except in emergencies and unless the evidence of abuse is compelling.
    Last edited by patslatt; 18th July 2010 at 07:19 PM.

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    I'd support the Childrens' rights referendum if we have a parental responsibility amendment in tandem with it. Parents who let down their children should lose their entitlement to state benefits.

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    Politics.ie Member Catalpa's Avatar
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    While I don't doubt the SS find this referendum a mouth watering prospect I think the Irish Public should be alert to an even more potent threat:

    Under the proposed wording as it stands the State will be obliged to put the interests of 'the children of the State' 1st in any legal considerations

    Besides the fact that we would really have under our own Constition the principle established for the 1st time that indeed some are more equal than others

    - this amendment if passed would see a huge increase in 'asylum seekers' landing here - who - quite rightly - when their claims are rejected

    - will push forward their children and have a cast iron case in Law to be allowed to stay under the principle of their childrens rights

    - as under the Constitution so amended they would be under the care of the State (ie 'of the State') and thus have their rights put first.

    Huge more numbers would arrive here trying it on if this goes through.

    Forewarned is Forearmed.
    Last edited by Catalpa; 13th February 2011 at 02:15 PM.

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    Does the proposed constitutional amendment give authorities greater power to seize children?

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