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Thread: If assasination plot against Hitler had succeeded

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    Politics.ie Member FutureTaoiseach's Avatar
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    Default If assasination plot against Hitler had succeeded

    In July 1944, a conspiracy by senior German officers including Count (Graf) Claus von Stauffenberg to kill Hitler failed. A bomb left in a bag under the table at the so-called "Wolf's Lair" bunker in East Prussia exploded but Hitler only sustained a burst ear-drum. It probably failed to kill him because another officer in the room moved the bag away from Hitler. Stauffenberg flew to Berlin and claimed Hitler was dead and ordered the arrest of Goebbels, the Minister for Propaganda. Goebbels then rang a hotline to Hitler and proved to the man sent to arrest him that Hitler was still alive. The conspirators and members of their families were rounded up and executed or sent to concentration-camps - including the Desert Fox Erwin Rommel - though historians are divided on his involvement.

    My question is as follows:

    If the plot had succeeded, would that have meant the end of the war in Europe? Would the 10 million lives lost in the year up to May 1945 have been saved - notably the Jews of Hungary being rounded up around this time. Would Eastern Europe still have been occupied by the Soviet Union and would Germany still have been partitioned? Or would the new leadership have been able to make a separate peace with the Western allies?

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    Briefly, I suppose the intention behind the plot was to create a situation where a new German govt could be created that might be able to cut a deal with the Allies and either join forces against the USSR or at least give the Germans a free hand on the Eastern front.
    The main motivation for Stauffenberg and his co-conspirators was their big estates in Eastern Germay (as it was then - now mostly belonging to Poland) were about to be taken by the Red Army. They were pragmatic enough to realise they weren't going to win the war against all the Allies together, and they knew that a) Hitler was unlikely to be up for any deal of any kind and b) the Allies wouldn't want to be seen to do a deal with Hitler.

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    Fascinating question. I wonder though even if the plot was successful and a new regime put in place would the Red Army have settled for anything less than unconditional surrender and occupation.

    You never know they may have even March to Paris. Imagine France as a Soviet satellite!! (not that hard actually )
    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies." óGroucho Marx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lichfield
    Fascinating question. I wonder though even if the plot was successful and a new regime put in place would the Red Army have settled for anything less than unconditional surrender and occupation.

    You never know they may have even March to Paris. Imagine France as a Soviet satellite!! (not that hard actually )
    I tend to agree... All sides in the war were so militarised and there was so much to scramble for after the conflict, that they would have continued to the outcome that was actually acheived. Perhaps the Nazi concentration camps would have been liberated earlier, but remember - the Allies were aware of the nature of these camps for a number of years and it was never a priority.

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    Politics.ie Member Catalpa's Avatar
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    I don't think the death of Hitler at that stage would have saved Germany from defeat but its just within the bounds of possibility an Armistice could have been reached and a peaceful Occupation resulted.

    Maybe along the lines of Japan in 1945 but with the Russians getting a slice of the action too.

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    Colin Forbes wrote a novel about such a scenario. It's a good read.


    http://www.colin-forbes.co.uk/books/10.html

    'The time bomb which was to kill Adolf Hitler was assembled at Smolensk with great care...'

    In 1943 Hitler was at the height of his powers. At his side constantly was Martin Bormann. On his mind constantly was the war against the beleaguered might of Stalin's Russia.

    After 13th March 1943 records show a drastic change in his behaviour and personality. This was the date of a bomb attack on his private plane.

    If Hitler was destroyed on that date who was the man in the Berlin Bunker in May 1945?

    How did Martin Bormann succeed in keeping the anti-Nazi generals from seizing the Reich?

    And who was Woodpecker - the Soviet spy at the pinnacle of the Nazi war machine?

    Colin Forbes' blistering novel retraces the last two years of a world at war, following the story of a British wing-commander who knew too much and a German secretary who knew much more.. to expose the most startling theory yet about the death throes of the Third Reich...

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    The Field Marschalls and Generals would have certainly capitulated much earlier to the Soviets, One thinks was there a secret deal between the conspirators and The Soviets? Perhaps on the lines of giving the Red Army a free hand to push to the French Borders thereby engaging a stalemate situation with the USA-Britain.The Generals thus becoming proxy rulers in a Communist Germany, but its all pure speculation. Certainly with Stalin complete victory was all he wanted. The death of Hitler would have accelerated defeat.
    It probablly was a good thing however that Hitler survived as he did hold of both the Soviet and Western allies long enough that all of Europe was'nt under Soviet control, West Germany then free to become the initial economic power house of Europe after Defeat and probably saved a further conflict between the Soviets and the USA-Britain.
    The nightmare scenario if Hitler died 1944 would be too difficult to contemplate under a Communist Europe.

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    I find it a bit strange that all the talk is of the possibility of some kind of a deal between the conspirators and the USSR. There were numerous attempts by the German side to reach a deal with the US and UK to either join forces against the USSR or at least give the Germans a free hand on the Eastern front.
    Given the pre-war attittudes of the US and UK attitude towards Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, and given the political and social background of the conspirators, I think it's very much more likely they were more concerned about stopping the Red Army getting to Germany. I can't see why aristoratic and conservative officers would rather strike a deal with Stalin than with the West.

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    Politics.ie Member james toney's Avatar
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    Ewald-Heinrich von Kleist,the last survivor in the attempted assassination plot of Hitler at the wolfs lair,has died at the age of 90.

    Associated Press
    "You think thats bad,theres one lunatic that posts on there 40-50 times a day..He's alone..in bad company!

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    Politics.ie Member Catalpast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by james toney View Post
    Ewald-Heinrich von Kleist,the last survivor in the attempted assassination plot of Hitler at the wolfs lair,has died at the age of 90.

    Associated Press
    Thanks for that
    If you can convince a People to engage in the mass elimination of their own offspring - you can probably get them to do anything...http://irelandinhistory.blogspot.ie/

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