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Thread: payment of school and hospital chaplains?

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    Default payment of school and hospital chaplains?

    Are school chaplains paid? If (as in my day) school chaplains are priests and just doing what should be part of their priestly duties anyway (ie indoctination) why should they be paid with State money? Given that the bishops and religious chair school boards of managments surely there is an issue in terms of their appointment? More importantly is the payment of priests contrary to Article 44 of the constitution in which the state guarantees not to endow any religion? Also are hospital chaplains paid? At a time of cutbacks in the public sector this would be a very good place to start....

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    Politics.ie Member corelli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeclogs View Post
    Are school chaplains paid? If (as in my day) school chaplains are priests and just doing what should be part of their priestly duties anyway (ie indoctination) why should they be paid with State money? Given that the bishops and religious chair school boards of managments surely there is an issue in terms of their appointment? More importantly is the payment of priests contrary to Article 44 of the constitution in which the state guarantees not to endow any religion? Also are hospital chaplains paid? At a time of cutbacks in the public sector this would be a very good place to start....
    They are paid, yes. Campaign to Separate Church & State v Minister for Education [1998] 3 IR 32. It's perfectly constitutional, unfortunately in my view.
    "......... we must sometimes listen to those who, consumed with zeal, have scant judgment or balance. To such ones the modern world is nothing but betrayal and ruin.........We feel bound to disagree with these prophets of doom who are forever forecasting calamity -- as though the world's end were imminent."

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    Politics.ie Member west'sawake's Avatar
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    I'll need to check this out further, but as far as I know there is somewhat an ironic situation at play here, community schools/colleges, and possibly some VEC schools have chaplains whose salaries are paid by the State. Most Catholic Voluntary Schools do not have chaplains, and if they do,they mostly teach, and are paid as teachers,

    Also, under Canon Law, only a priest should be a chaplain, and that is the way it is supposed to be and was as you say that way in your day. Now though as is the case with Catholic Institutions Chaplaincy has being laicised and in most cases secularised.

    I remember going to a R.E congress/conference in a Catholic teacher training college in Dublin, and during a break in the conference I wanted to get some prayer and scripture meditation in only to find, after some effort, that the small oratory was named the quiet room, or something like that, for the occasion, and there was no sign of a tabernacle or sanctuary lamp to denote the presence of what Catholics refer to as the Blessed Sacrament. Granted the large college chapel had it but for a Catholic Religious Education conference it spoke volumes about the syncretism that is now at the heart of Catholic Education when I was sign posted to a 'Quiet Room'. or 'Quiet Place' (Next door were a few voices, in the Chaplain's office, all female).

    So to assure you, Chaplains are no longer priests, (The Irish Catholic Church as usual is turning a blind eye to its own rules), They are no longer men only, there are single men and women and married men and women Chaplains. It's usage today, although in breach of Canon law, has come to mean something else. Indeed as far as I know, Mater Dei run Chapliancy courses open to all, and priests form but a small minority.

    For different reasons to your own I would like to see this tightened up by the Church and State, and though some of my hours come under Chaplaincy, the State does not pay them. A Chaplain is supposed to be an advocate and witness for the Gospel and the Catechism as well as having a pastoral care role. Most are encouraged to have training as Counsellors, though again this often leads to straying into a purely secular model, which is contrary to the original sense of the role within the Church.

    The only way the Church can expand the Chaplaincy outside the priesthood is through the Diaconate, which again is only for men. (Though that is not laicisation since a deacon is an ordained ministry). To summarise Chaplaincy has come to mean not that which the Catholic Church officially sees it as. The State seems happy to go along with this secular pelagian hybrid.
    Last edited by west'sawake; 25th June 2010 at 03:02 PM.

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    This has to be a joke
    Please tell me my tax money is not going on this rubbish

    Let all the chaplains go tomorrow or if they wan't to continue - let their gods provide for them.

    The government (Labour maybe?) should then refuse to pay teachers for teaching religious educatuion in schools (30 mins per day - a big % of a school day)
    These savings could then be spent on important matters and not on fairy stories.
    Of all the millions wasted on useless schemes - religion is the most spectacular waste of tax payers money.

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    Politics.ie Member Old Mr Grouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by west'sawake View Post
    ... To summairse Chaplaincy has come to mean not that which the Catholic Church officially sees it as. The State seems happy to go along with this secular pelagian hybrid.
    Thanks, Westie. I'm now a former Catholic but your post is very clear and to the point.

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    Politics.ie Member FrankSpeaks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shilts View Post
    This has to be a joke
    Please tell me my tax money is not going on this rubbish

    Let all the chaplains go tomorrow or if they wan't to continue - let their gods provide for them.

    The government (Labour maybe?) should then refuse to pay teachers for teaching religious educatuion in schools (30 mins per day - a big % of a school day)
    These savings could then be spent on important matters and not on fairy stories.
    Of all the millions wasted on useless schemes - religion is the most spectacular waste of tax payers money.

    I agree stop this nonsense immediately.
    There's a lot to be said for the fellow who doesn't say it himself. -- Maurice Switzer

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    Thirded.

    (c.) P.ie

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    I suggest that some of the above bigots wait until they are dying in a hospital bed before campaigning for the removal of hospital chaplains. That eventuality will, of course, come to them one day - if they are lucky, that is. And, for some of them, it will be sooner than they think. They might find their hostility to Christianity somewhat lessened by the experience. I haven't heard of many people asking for a reading from the works of Richard Dawkins when on their deathbed.

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    I've already been on my deathbed with a heart attack. I wanted a solicitor, not a chaplain.

    (c.) P.ie

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    Politics.ie Member FrankSpeaks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bessiebell View Post
    I suggest that some of the above bigots wait until they are dying in a hospital bed before campaigning for the removal of hospital chaplains. That eventuality will, of course, come to them one day - if they are lucky, that is. And, for some of them, it will be sooner than they think. They might find their hostility to Christianity somewhat lessened by the experience. I haven't heard of many people asking for a reading from the works of Richard Dawkins when on their deathbed.
    That is because most people in this country have been brainwashed since birth into believing in fairy tales about powerful sky gods.
    There's a lot to be said for the fellow who doesn't say it himself. -- Maurice Switzer

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