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Thread: The Frontline The Irish Property Council --My postman has an apartment in Bulgaria

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    Politics.ie Member Socratus O' Pericles's Avatar
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    Default The Frontline The Irish Property Council --My postman has an apartment in Bulgaria

    When I was growing up in small town in middle Ireland the idea that the Postman would have apartment in Bulgaria was so far off the spectrum as to be inconceivable.

    Now all sorts of people are owners of property, the list includes not just postmen but guards, doctors, It specialists, nurses and teachers as well.

    Now that their bigger brothers have been sorted by NAMA these “smaller” property investors too want a bailout-- tax incentives and an understanding attitude from the banks would be a good start according to them.

    Their mood was gloomy last night as they spoke of suicide, 100,000 skilled personnel being "lost" to the economy, of a depression so deep we might not come out of it for a generation

    They demurred at the idea they might be greedy.

    Now as I understand capitalism -profit is the extra reward for enterprise i.e. risk taking/investment -the bigger the risk the greater the reward for Enterprise but subject to the understanding that you can loose. Surely it is a form of capitalism “lite” if there is no penalty when risk doesn't pay off and the nanny always steps in to pick up the pieces, that is a one way bet that doesn’t seem to be coming off.

    I think this depression will be long and deep.

    BTW Bank of Ireland shares are €1.24 today, how long before the banks are Nationalised?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Socratus O' Pericles View Post
    When I was growing up in small town in middle Ireland the idea that the Postman would have apartment in Bulgaria was so far off the spectrum as to be inconceivable.

    Now all sorts of people are owners of property, the list includes not just postmen but guards, doctors, It specialists, nurses and teachers as well.

    Now that their bigger brothers have been sorted by NAMA these “smaller” property investors too want a bailout-- tax incentives and an understanding attitude from the banks would be a good start according to them.

    Their mood was gloomy last night as they spoke of suicide, 100,000 skilled personnel being "lost" to the economy, of a depression so deep we might not come out of it for a generation

    They demurred at the idea they might be greedy.

    Now as I understand capitalism -profit is the extra reward for enterprise i.e. risk taking/investment -the bigger the risk the greater the reward for Enterprise but subject to the understanding that you can loose. Surely it is a form of capitalism “lite” if there is no penalty when risk doesn't pay off and the nanny always steps in to pick up the pieces, that is a one way bet that doesn’t seem to be coming off.

    I think this depression will be long and deep.

    BTW Bank of Ireland shares are €1.24 today, how long before the banks are Nationalised?
    Well if the government continues to increase taxes then it will be a long depression similar to the depression that Hoover and FDR caused in 1930's America.

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    Quote Originally Posted by True Republican View Post
    Well if the government continues to increase taxes then it will be a long depression similar to the depression that Hoover and FDR caused in 1930's America.
    Both of these are pretty much a given at this stage!

    I would replace the Hoover and FDR comparison though with a more suitably apt description in our contemporary case of depression. In comparison with the leaders in that particular time period (20's+30's) our present geniuses fall somewhere between Laurel and Hardy and Al Capone.

    Can someone other than the usual vested interests, govt hacks and spin merchants point out where the recovery is going to come from, while being cognisant of the fact that the economy is still contracting and will contract more into the forseeable future, which is in no small part due to being bled dry by the unholy trinity of FF policy the Banks and NAMA?

    I'm generally an optimistic person who looks at angles in an attempt to see the upside rather than the downside of issues but I have been saying for sometime my belief that we are in for a long Japanese style crash. The actions of the insiders up to this point has just reinforced that belief.

    The blatant shovelling of OUR money with reckless abandon into zombie banking institutions is criminal IMO. The much more important question which has never been answered in a logical coherent way (though I think we all know) is; WHY? The blatant pushing of the incumbents agenda forward without any open examination or cognisance of the causes the scandal is breathtaking in it's arrogance and stinks to it's core. The fact that no sanction has yet been brought to bare on any of the main architechts of the obvious criminal behaviour engaged in, whilst not surprising in this nepotistic cess pool is proof positive that the culture that gave us CJH, CC kiddie fidlers cover ups and a lytanny of other nod wink and doff your cap type episodes towards "Our Betters" as Martin Manseragh might say is still very much alive.

    So now the new watchword is competitiveness. I love the way that the same clowns that allowed the country to become their property chums wild west to the absolute destruction of said competitiveness talk of gritting our teeth and donning the green jersey for our national lean project. Someone better tell them that many of the FDI industries we pitch for are going through major consolidations and cost cutting excercises in their own right so major expansions will be in much shorter supply "Going Forward"

    The seeds of this mire we find ourselves in were sown in the late 90's and early 00's and it will take a long time for this to be worked through the system. That said as an optimist I am open to an unbaised argument to the contrary.
    Last edited by Fish; 16th March 2010 at 10:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Socratus O' Pericles View Post
    Now all sorts of people are owners of property, the list includes not just postmen but guards, doctors, It specialists, nurses and teachers as well.

    Now that their bigger brothers have been sorted by NAMA these “smaller” property investors too want a bailout-- tax incentives and an understanding attitude from the banks would be a good start according to them.

    Their mood was gloomy last night as they spoke of suicide, 100,000 skilled personnel being "lost" to the economy, of a depression so deep we might not come out of it for a generation

    They demurred at the idea they might be greedy.
    The "bigger brothers" were the ones who had political sway and did the damage whilst the smaller investors like the "postmen, guards, doctors, It specialists, nurses and teachers" and maybe less well off professions and working class people were the ones who thought they might invest in the future for their familes. So why shouldn't they now seek recompense for being cheated by their government? Would you think if a person investing in a little local business should feel aggrieved if after beginning they were extorted until they brike by the government just because the large multi nationals played around, lost billions and now have the government cover their losses? Would this small little local businessman be considered "greedy"??

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    Politics.ie Member Thac0man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Republican View Post
    Well if the government continues to increase taxes then it will be a long depression similar to the depression that Hoover and FDR caused in 1930's America.
    We basically need to start derailing some gravy trains and slaughtering some sacred cows, that should see us through.

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    Why is it that threads like this, which are well written, thoughtful and try to deal with the problems objectively, get so few contributions?

    At the same time the ones that indulge in personal abuse, are obviously set up to push a specific agenda and bully those who try to deal with the issues, get loads of contributions.

    On this topic I recommend an article by people who were involved at the time of the disorderly default in Argentina in today's Indo.

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    Politics.ie Member Telemachus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbetal View Post
    The "bigger brothers" were the ones who had political sway and did the damage whilst the smaller investors like the "postmen, guards, doctors, It specialists, nurses and teachers" and maybe less well off professions and working class people were the ones who thought they might invest in the future for their familes. So why shouldn't they now seek recompense for being cheated by their government? Would you think if a person investing in a little local business should feel aggrieved if after beginning they were extorted until they brike by the government just because the large multi nationals played around, lost billions and now have the government cover their losses? Would this small little local businessman be considered "greedy"??
    Investing in the future of your family involved speculative inventments in the eastern european property market?

    You should have your home taken off you if you cant pay the bills. You can rent like me then.
    ..the Irish nation can become other than white, by privileging the voices of the racialised and subverting state immigration but also integration policies. – Ronit Lentin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Telemachus View Post
    Investing in the future of your family involved speculative inventments in the eastern european property market?

    You should have your home taken off you if you cant pay the bills. You can rent like me then.
    Great reply. Intelligent and well thought out. really tackels the issue. Not just begrudging at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbetal View Post
    The "bigger brothers" were the ones who had political sway and did the damage whilst the smaller investors like the "postmen, guards, doctors, It specialists, nurses and teachers" and maybe less well off professions and working class people were the ones who thought they might invest in the future for their familes. So why shouldn't they now seek recompense for being cheated by their taxpayer? Would you think if a person investing in a little local business should feel aggrieved if after beginning they were extorted until they brike by the government just because the large multi nationals played around, lost billions and now have the government cover their losses? Would this small little local businessman be considered "greedy"??
    I've fixed that for you.

    No thank you.
    ''The tattoo has a profound meaning: the superficiality of modern man’s existence.'' - Theodore Dalrymple

    "Any fool can make something complicated. It takes a genius to make it simple." - Woody Guthrie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Telemachus View Post
    Investing in the future of your family involved speculative inventments in the eastern european property market?

    You should have your home taken off you if you cant pay the bills. You can rent like me then.
    Spot on!!
    The true "front line workers" are the private sector paye employees who are first to take the bullet. Cannon fodder for their state and the public sector.

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