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Thread: Dalkey Family Seeks to Quash Verdict on Death of Baby

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    Default Dalkey Family Seeks to Quash Verdict on Death of Baby

    See articles in Irish Times and Irish Independent today on a lady who claims she was raped and had two babies as a child; both of them were allegedly murdered by her parents. One was supposed to be buried in the garden of the Dalkey house; the Gardai dug it up and found nothing. (She then began to make allegations against them - and not of negligence either!)

    However at very belated inquest in 2007, the jury decided that she WAS the mother of a different baby whose murdered body was found in the street in 1973 (i.e. 34 years previously). Her family is taking a High Court action to challange the inquest verdict and say she NEVER had a baby as a child/teenager.

    The Irish Times article is
    Family seeks to quash verdict on death of baby - The Irish Times - Wed, Mar 10, 2010

    The Irish Independent one is
    Baby inquest verdict wrong, claims sister - Courts, National News - Independent.ie

    Everything about this High Court action is unique; so was the inquest verdict 3 years ago.

    Quote from Irish Times article: Opening the case yesterday, Sunniva McDonagh SC, for Ms Stevenson, said it was her client’s position, and that of other family members, that there was no baby. “It is a situation where there could not be a starker conflict of fact,” Ms McDonagh said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilbarry1 View Post
    See articles in Irish Times and Irish Independent today on a lady who claims she was raped and had two babies as a child; both of them were allegedly murdered by her parents. One was supposed to be buried in the garden of the Dalkey house; the Gardai dug it up and found nothing. (She then began to make allegations against them - and not of negligence either!)

    However at very belated inquest in 2007, the jury decided that she WAS the mother of a different baby whose murdered body was found in the street in 1973 (i.e. 34 years previously). Her family is taking a High Court action to challange the inquest verdict and say she NEVER had a baby as a child/teenager.

    The Irish Times article is
    Family seeks to quash verdict on death of baby - The Irish Times - Wed, Mar 10, 2010

    The Irish Independent one is
    Baby inquest verdict wrong, claims sister - Courts, National News - Independent.ie

    Everything about this High Court action is unique; so was the inquest verdict 3 years ago.

    Quote from Irish Times article: Opening the case yesterday, Sunniva McDonagh SC, for Ms Stevenson, said it was her client’s position, and that of other family members, that there was no baby. “It is a situation where there could not be a starker conflict of fact,” Ms McDonagh said.
    Is there a Catholic Church angle to this story?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirHenryGrattan View Post
    Is there a Catholic Church angle to this story?
    Why are you only going to comment on it if there is ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirHenryGrattan View Post
    Is there a Catholic Church angle to this story?
    Logically there should not be. However she went to the local convent school and her recent book "Living With Evil" is full of descriptions of evil nuns mistreating her, for example;

    Mother Dorothy marched up the steps to the rows of desks at the back getting closer and closer to mine. "does anybody know what that awful smell is"? she demanded. My stomach was doing awful somersaults by now and I was feeling very hot. I thought I might faint.

    "Shall I tell you what it is", she boomed. She was sniffing very dramatically, as if she had found the source of the foul smell and she was walking straight towards me with her eyes on fire. "The smell is dirty knickers" she shrieked. I was so shocked by what she said I blushed bright scarlet. I could feel my heart pumping blood furiously to my face. Nobody ever talked about underwear in our house, let alone dirty knickers. To hear a nun say that took my breath away.

    "You might well feel embarrased Cynthia Murphy", she went on. "You are the culprit. You are the girl wearing dirty knickers. I can smell them I can smell your dirty knickers". I wanted to shrivel up and die with shame. My palms were sweating and I hung my head so low that the back of my neck ached, but she hadn't finished yet.

    "I'm warning you Cynthia Murphy, wash them out every night or I'm doing a knicker inspection", she barked. "I'm pulling your knickers down and caning you if they are dirty."


    This is bog standard, off the shelf stuff that we have been getting since Frank McCourt started the Mis Lit genre of "literature" with Angela's Ashes. It has little to do with the main allegations - that she was raped at home; gave birth to two children when she was 10/11 and 14; and that both were murdered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilbarry1 View Post
    Logically there should not be. However she went to the local convent school and her recent book "Living With Evil" is full of descriptions of evil nuns mistreating her, for example;

    Mother Dorothy marched up the steps to the rows of desks at the back getting closer and closer to mine. "does anybody know what that awful smell is"? she demanded. My stomach was doing awful somersaults by now and I was feeling very hot. I thought I might faint.

    "Shall I tell you what it is", she boomed. She was sniffing very dramatically, as if she had found the source of the foul smell and she was walking straight towards me with her eyes on fire. "The smell is dirty knickers" she shrieked. I was so shocked by what she said I blushed bright scarlet. I could feel my heart pumping blood furiously to my face. Nobody ever talked about underwear in our house, let alone dirty knickers. To hear a nun say that took my breath away.

    "You might well feel embarrased Cynthia Murphy", she went on. "You are the culprit. You are the girl wearing dirty knickers. I can smell them I can smell your dirty knickers". I wanted to shrivel up and die with shame. My palms were sweating and I hung my head so low that the back of my neck ached, but she hadn't finished yet.

    "I'm warning you Cynthia Murphy, wash them out every night or I'm doing a knicker inspection", she barked. "I'm pulling your knickers down and caning you if they are dirty."


    This is bog standard, off the shelf stuff that we have been getting since Frank McCourt started the Mis Lit genre of "literature" with Angela's Ashes. It has little to do with the main allegations - that she was raped at home; gave birth to two children when she was 10/11 and 14; and that both were murdered.
    You are a very sad man.

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    For anyone who is interested the blog Blather.Net ("Talking S***e since 1997") has at least two detailed articles on the Dalkey House of Horrors case. The earlier one dated 7 July 2005
    Blather: The Dalkey Baby and the House of Horrors
    has some very interesting quotes from newspapers including the following from the Irish Times:

    In 1995, the woman told garda that she remembered being pregnant at the age of 11, but she had no recollection of the birth or the events that led to the discovery of the dead child. The woman, who has a family of her own, apparently decided to come forward following counselling sessions in Britain, where she lived for several years.

    The poster "Damien" goes on to say:

    Now, what do all these reports have in common? Fundamentally, they all repeat the same 'facts' which state that a woman in her 40's is claiming to have given birth to two children (one of whom was stabbed to death with a knitting needle before her eyes) and to have had no memory of the events until recieving therapy in the United Kindgom.

    There is another - indirect - link here with allegations against the Catholic Church. As far as I know, the only person in Ireland to have been convicted on the basis of "Recovered Memory" evidence was former Sister of Mercy Nora Wall. (The conviction quickly collapsed when her 2 accusers gave an interview to the Irish Daily Star which published their names for the first time; one of several previous victims of their false allegations then came forward to give evidence.) That was in 1999 and it was a CRIMINAL conviction. The verdict of the "Dalkey House of Horrors" inquest jury in 2007 was not in a criminal case but it did give credence to Recovered Memory.

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    "Recovered Memory" is not accepted in Irish Courts. That was one of the planks of the Wall appeal. A successful one too.
    "......... we must sometimes listen to those who, consumed with zeal, have scant judgment or balance. To such ones the modern world is nothing but betrayal and ruin.........We feel bound to disagree with these prophets of doom who are forever forecasting calamity -- as though the world's end were imminent."

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    Quote Originally Posted by corelli View Post
    "Recovered Memory" is not accepted in Irish Courts. That was one of the planks of the Wall appeal. A successful one too.
    Yes and the SECOND article on Blather.Net (dated 17 June 2006) goes into great detail on this kind of Voodoo Science:
    Blather: The Return of the Dalkey Baby

    The full details of Dalkey Baby story are covered in detail on blather.net in an original article from 2005. The key thing to note is that the claims at the heart of Cynthia Owen's story would appear to stem from 'memories' which were unearthed during 'regression therapy' in England. And as anyone who knows anything about the history of child-abuse hysteria will know, regression therapy is, to be quite blunt, a complete crock. More than that, it is profoudly dangerous crock, which has led to the destruction of countless homes, families and lives. ......

    Whilst I have nothing but sympathy for Cynthia Owen (she has, quite clearly, suffered at length over this issue - whatever the truth of it) it's quite breath-taking that one year after the initial hullabaloo, in which time coroners, journalists, policemen and lawyers have had an abundance of time to reflect on and research this issue, we find ourselves back where we started: a three-ring media circus based on the unsubstantiated accusations of a woman whose memories of abuse stem from a dangerous branch of charlatanry; carrried out by con-men, hucksters and new-age sensationalists masquerading under the pretence of science.

    The case of the Dalkey Baby and the suffering of the Owen family is upsetting in the extreme. But this should not deter those in the business of reporting 'the news' (is such a term can even be used thse days) to observe the simple fact that the entire episode has been borne of an utterly discredited, pseudo-scientific pile of nonsense. Once again, we must sadly observe, Irish journalists have manifestly failed in doing their jobs. And it's not like we're talking about a need for extensive research here: a simple google search would have told the truth of this.


    Hopefully the poster "Damien" will write something about the current attempt in the High Court to overthrow the verdict of the inquest jury.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilbarry1 View Post
    For anyone who is interested the blog Blather.Net ("Talking S***e since 1997") has at least two detailed articles on the Dalkey House of Horrors case. The earlier one dated 7 July 2005
    Blather: The Dalkey Baby and the House of Horrors
    has some very interesting quotes from newspapers including the following from the Irish Times:

    In 1995, the woman told garda that she remembered being pregnant at the age of 11, but she had no recollection of the birth or the events that led to the discovery of the dead child. The woman, who has a family of her own, apparently decided to come forward following counselling sessions in Britain, where she lived for several years.

    The poster "Damien" goes on to say:

    Now, what do all these reports have in common? Fundamentally, they all repeat the same 'facts' which state that a woman in her 40's is claiming to have given birth to two children (one of whom was stabbed to death with a knitting needle before her eyes) and to have had no memory of the events until recieving therapy in the United Kindgom.

    There is another - indirect - link here with allegations against the Catholic Church. As far as I know, the only person in Ireland to have been convicted on the basis of "Recovered Memory" evidence was former Sister of Mercy Nora Wall. (The conviction quickly collapsed when her 2 accusers gave an interview to the Irish Daily Star which published their names for the first time; one of several previous victims of their false allegations then came forward to give evidence.) That was in 1999 and it was a CRIMINAL conviction. The verdict of the "Dalkey House of Horrors" inquest jury in 2007 was not in a criminal case but it did give credence to Recovered Memory.
    There is another link between the conviction of Nora Wall in 1999 and the Dalkey jury inquest in 2007 - apart from the fact that both involved Recovered Memory. Like Cynthia Owen, Nora Wall's main accuser had lived for a time in the UK. Not only has Recovered Memory little credence in Ireland; on the ONLY two occassions in which it was successfully used, the idea probably originated in the UK!

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    Gardai are revisiting the Dalkey house of horrors case. The allegation in that case is that a Garda led the paedophile ring. And theres allegations that improper influence helped cover up the case. Gardai revisit 'house of horrors' paedophile case - Independent.ie

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