Follow @PoliticsIE
 
 
 
Page 1 of 24 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 232

Thread: If Dev wasn't the most important Irish Politician of the 20th Century: who was?

  1. #1
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    6,212
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Question If Dev wasn't the most important Irish Politician of the 20th Century: who was?

    I would have though that the matter was well beyond dispute. But some, have an irrational hatred of the man (and presumably his party) than they cannot judge him objectively. But cannot name anyone more important?

    Why is Eamon De Valera the most important and influential politician?
    His achievements:
    a) Getting Ireland's independance recognsied internationly.
    b)Foundind the Irish Press and then Fianna Fail (whatever your views, they have considerable influence)
    c) Releasing the IRA prisoners as promised.
    d) Sidlining the Governor General
    e) Getting sovereignty of Treaty Ports.
    f) Got a Constitution passed by popular appeal (and leaving aside Abortion, divorce and Europe, there have been few succesful attempts to change it)
    g) Keeping Ireland out of World War two.
    h) He was President of the Executive Council, leader of the opposition (both inside and outside the Dail), Taoiseach (he took a pay cut taking the job) and President.

    There is plenty of hatred, but when asked who is the alternative as the most influential Irishman of the 20th Century, there is little by way of response. Why is this?


    ... without the insight of Lemass and his single-minded conviction and leadership, Dev's FF would have succombed to failure.
    http://www.politics.ie/history/12303...ml#post2420450

    Dev was the first political thief ffs. He stole the Irish Press which was funded by American donations so that the Irish people would have a voice. Do not mention that traitor. He used his American birth to avoid the death penalty when all his comrades were executed.
    http://www.politics.ie/history/12303...ml#post2421060

  2. #2
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    122
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Albert Reynolds

    Albert Reynolds

    The greatest Taoiseach to date

  3. #3
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    12,595
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Dev was without a doubt the most important politician in the history of the state.

    The role of Collins was glorious, but ultimately, overstated. His violence achieved partial independence in 3 years, that possibly would have taken 10 years without him. Perhaps we wouldn't even have got it until WWII.

    Dev's importance also derives from his absolutely catastrophic influence on the state, from the civil war, to the trade war, to his backward ethos that wou;d have us poor but pure. Emigration and dancing at the crossroads was fine by him.

  4. #4
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    12,595
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    delete.

  5. #5
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    6,212
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kalahan View Post
    Albert Reynolds

    The greatest Taoiseach to date
    Is that on a per diem basis?

    (If Cowen stays in office until the 11th March, 2011, he will pass his Master out in terms of length in office, though probably not in terms of achievement).

  6. #6
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    26,072
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    I would agree that he was the most important ant influential person of his time, but unfortunately it was used for the wrong, reason not to mention the civil war,he was responsible for starving half the country during the economic war and the other half to leave the country,Influence used to keep the country in the dark ages until Lynch came along

  7. #7
    Politics.ie Member QuizMaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    North Inishowen
    Posts
    3,207
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    I have to agree with Meriwether. De Valera was the most influential politician for all the wrong reasons.
    His cynical out-manoevering of Collins in the talks of 1921 was shameful.
    His pursuit of the civil war was shameful.
    His founding of Fianna Fail and swearing an oath of allegiance to the King was a shameful betrayal of the men he led to their death, fighting against that very thing.
    He then allowed the Roman Catholic Church to get a stranglehold on the fledgling state.

    We would have been far far better off without him, whatever his real name was.
    If there is a future, it will be Green.

  8. #8
    Politics.ie Member The Field Marshal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    The Imperial Throne
    Posts
    44,291
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by meriwether View Post
    Dev was without a doubt the most important politician in the history of the state.

    The role of Collins was glorious, but ultimately, overstated. His violence achieved partial independence in 3 years, that possibly would have taken 10 years without him. Perhaps we wouldn't even have got it until WWII.

    Dev's importance also derives from his absolutely catastrophic influence on the state, from the civil war, to the trade war, to his backward ethos that wou;d have us poor but pure. Emigration and dancing at the crossroads was fine by him.
    Pure speculation on Collins.

    You assume we would have got independence by WW2. What if we had not,eh?
    We probably would not be having this conversation as the Germans would have bombed us to bits,.

    The strong liklyhood in your scenario is that Ireland would still be an integral part of the British empire.

  9. #9
    Politics.ie Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    9,410
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Dev was clearly the most important.

    However, his achievements are equally matched by his failings so I don't think he was the greatest. Lemass was the greatest - followed by Haughey (for leading the 1987 government).

    FF have dominated Irish politics which is why the three I refer to are all FF.

  10. #10
    Politics.ie Member QuizMaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    North Inishowen
    Posts
    3,207
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Who was this man we call Eamon De Valera anyway?
    From wikipedia:
    De Valera was born in the New York Nursery and Child's Hospital in New York City in 1882 to an Irish mother; he stated that his parents, Catherine Coll (subsequently Mrs Wheelwright), an immigrant from Bruree, County Limerick, and Juan Vivion de Valera, a Cuban or Spanish settler and sculptor, were married on 18 September 1881 at St. Patrick's Church located within the Greenville Section of Jersey City, NJ.[6] However, exhaustive trawls through church and state records give no birth, baptismal, or death certificate information for anyone called Juan Vivion de Valera or de Valeros, an alternative spelling. The historian Sean Murphy has listed the long-term search for facts about Mr de Valera, allowing that he may have come from New Mexico, and was perhaps returning there at the time of his death.[7][dubiousdiscuss]
    On de Valera's original birth certificate, his name is given as George De Valero and his father is listed as Vivion De Valero. The first name was corrected in 1910 (possibly 1916) to Edward and the surname to de Valera.[7]
    Éamon de Valera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    If there is a future, it will be Green.

Page 1 of 24 1234511 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •