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Thread: 'Heroic' decree for wartime Pope sparks anger among Jews.

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    Default 'Heroic' decree for wartime Pope sparks anger among Jews.

    RELATIONS BETWEEN the Catholic Church and Jews struck a familiar raw nerve at the weekend when Pope Benedict XVI approved a decree of “heroic virtue” for the wartime pope, Pius XII.

    The controversial Pius was one of 17 people approved by Benedict last Saturday in a list that also included Pope John Paul II and Father Jerzy Popieluszko, a Polish priest killed by Polish secret services in 1984.

    The decree of heroic virtue is an important step on the path to sainthood, representing an official finding that the candidate lived a saintly life. The candidate may now be referred to as “venerable” and, if two miracles are documented and accepted by the Vatican’s Congregation for the Cause of Saints, the candidate will be beatified and later sanctified.

    While there are unlikely to be many problems relative to John Paul II’s claims to sainthood, the same clearly cannot be said of Pius. For most of the last 60 years, many Jewish groups have argued that Pius, who was pope from 1939 to 1958, was guilty not only of not publicly condemning Hitler’s Nazi-Fascist regime but also of doing little or nothing to prevent the death of an estimated six million Jews in the Holocaust.

    The inclusion of Pius in Saturday’s list took Vatican observers by surprise. Most Vatican commentators had expected John Paul II to be on the list, but not Pius XII, thus generating the suspicion that the Holy See had tried to “slip in” one highly controversial pontiff, Pius, for the price of one widely admired one, John Paul II.

    Pope Benedict’s announcement prompted immediate criticism from the worldwide Jewish community. In Italy, the president of the Association of Italian Rabbis, Giuseppe Laras, said: “ is a sad one because I cannot help but think of what happened during the Shoah [Holocaust]. The figure of this pope is a controversial one because he did not shout out loud his outrage and his opposition to the Shoah and against the extermination of people whose only crime was that of being Jewish.”

    'Heroic' decree for wartime pope sparks anger among Jews - The Irish Times - Mon, Dec 21, 2009

    This will awaken many nightmarish memories and open up the woundedness and pain from that time of recent European history.
    The hurt of one is the hurt of all, the honour of one is the honour of all.

    Native American Indian Traditional Code of Ethics

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    Politics.ie Member former wesleyan's Avatar
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    For a fairly decent defence of Pius read Michael Burleighs "Sacred Causes ".
    There's fairly racist stuff about the Irish in it; but that's usual from an English Catholic wishing to distance himself from the Irish.

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    Politics.ie Member H.R. Haldeman's Avatar
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    Awesome. So we have an ex-Nazi who believes he talks to God and a people who believe a (slightly) different God personally gave them land arguing over the actions of a different man who talked to God (only in Latin) during a time when the aforementioned ex-Nazi's colleagues were ethnically cleansing Europe of the latter group. All this story needs is a couple of wacky Mullahs, a bible-thumpin' Elmer Gantry or two and a drink-deprived Fr. Jack Hackett to really take off.

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    It's sort of like an ecclesiastical "Falty Towers" at this stage. We may get the "Buddha - fat bastard" encyclical before long.

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    Politics.ie Member Monday Monday's Avatar
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    I wonder is throwing a tarnished Pius XII into the mix just a ploy to draw the flack away from a JPII who was hardly squeaky clean.

    Nobody gives a rats ass about another Saint Pius but a Saint John Paul II is a real money-spinner with the plebs.

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    Politics.ie Member willoughby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monday Monday View Post
    I wonder is throwing a tarnished Pius XII into the mix just a ploy to draw the flack away from a JPII who was hardly squeaky clean.
    How so?

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    Politics.ie Member Monday Monday's Avatar
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    Well, off the top of my head, I would say.

    Direct and hard working opposition to contraception in Africa regardless of its effect on the AIDS epidemic on the continent.

    Presiding over the biggest sex scandal in Church history (and that's saying something given the Churches history in this area.)

    Debasing the churches intellectual capital (I know, don't laugh) by promoting the more superstitious aspects of the religion. ie. Promoted more Saints than any other Pope.

    Also, as an aside, JPII was rumoured to have had a LOT of sex when he was a seminarian. Just a rumour mind you, and at least it was sex with adult women, which has got to be worth something these days.

    He wasn't a bad pope and, if you were a hard core Catholic, you would probably prefer the thought of the misery of diseased black people (who you don't know) to the thought that a baby might not be born (with or without a fatal disease as the case may be).

    But, he was hardly a saint.

    And I am aware of the irony in that statement considering he is being fast-tracked to actual Sainthood.
    Last edited by Monday Monday; 22nd December 2009 at 11:35 AM.

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    Politics.ie Member willoughby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monday Monday View Post
    Well off the top of my head I would say.

    Direct and hard working opposition to contraception in Africa regardless of its effect on the AIDS epidemic on the continent.

    Presiding over the biggest sex scandal in Church history (and that's saying something given the Churches history in this area.)

    Debasing the churches intellectual capital (I know, don't laugh) by promoting the more superstitious aspects of the religion. ie. Promoted more Saints than any other Pope.

    JPI was rumoured to have had a LOT of sex when he was a seminarian. Just a rumour, mind you, and at least it was sex with adult women, which has got to be worth something these days.

    He wasn't a bad pope and if you were a hard core Catholic you would probably prefer the thought of the misery of diseased black people (who you don't know) to the thought that a baby might not be born (with or without a fatal disease as the case may be).

    But, he was hardly a saint.

    And I am aware of the irony in that statement considering he is being fast-tracked to actual Sainthood.
    I see your points. But I would consider JP a more progressive pope than many of his predesecors. The problems you have mentioned were endemic in the catholic church when he came along. All the same I agree with you Sainthood is probably wasted on some. It should be reserved for the Mother teresa's of this world.

    I dont know enough about Pius to make a decent contribution but I would think it was very hard to be a pope in wartime Italy that had an atheist ruler. That said, ignoring the plight of the Jews was NOT a very Christian thing to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by willoughby View Post
    I see your points. But I would consider JP a more progressive pope than many of his predesecors. The problems you have mentioned were endemic in the catholic church when he came along. All the same I agree with you Sainthood is probably wasted on some. It should be reserved for the Mother teresa's of this world.

    I dont know enough about Pius to make a decent contribution but I would think it was very hard to be a pope in wartime Italy that had an atheist ruler. That said, ignoring the plight of the Jews was NOT a very Christian thing to do.

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    Politics.ie Member Half Nelson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monday Monday View Post
    Well, off the top of my head, I would say.

    Direct and hard working opposition to contraception in Africa regardless of its effect on the AIDS epidemic on the continent.

    Presiding over the biggest sex scandal in Church history (and that's saying something given the Churches history in this area.)

    Debasing the churches intellectual capital (I know, don't laugh) by promoting the more superstitious aspects of the religion. ie. Promoted more Saints than any other Pope.

    Also, as an aside, JPII was rumoured to have had a LOT of sex when he was a seminarian. Just a rumour mind you, and at least it was sex with adult women, which has got to be worth something these days.

    He wasn't a bad pope and, if you were a hard core Catholic, you would probably prefer the thought of the misery of diseased black people (who you don't know) to the thought that a baby might not be born (with or without a fatal disease as the case may be).

    But, he was hardly a saint.

    And I am aware of the irony in that statement considering he is being fast-tracked to actual Sainthood.
    At least you managed to put something factual in your post.
    "We’re entering an era of outsourced censorship, where the terrible things once done by the state are now done by Silicon Valley suits."

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