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Thread: Ukraine—partitioned?

  1. #1
    Politics.ie Member Al.'s Avatar
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    Default Ukraine—partitioned?

    Germany seems to be advancing the plan. Currently, it's via NATO expansion. But if NATO fails, consider what the alternative is (it's in the Treaty of Lisbon).

    German-Foreign-Policy.com
    East Ukraine - A "de Facto Nation"
    2009/12/01

    German military circles are debating NATO's continued eastward expansion and the partitioning of the Ukraine.

    As a former advisor in the Amt für Studien und Übungen (Bureau for Research and Training) of the German Bundeswehr writes, the question of expanding the western war alliance to the territory of the Ukraine is still on the table. If this step is taken, "probably only the western Ukraine" will join NATO. The "eastern Ukraine" would "in this case, become independent or a de facto nation like Abkhazia."

    The author, a lieutenant colonel of the reserves, presented his ideas in a military magazine, embedding them in a retrospective on the entire past twenty years of NATO's eastward expansion.

    According to the author, a "cordon sanitaire" separating this war alliance from Russia, conceded by the allies of World War II to the Soviet Union, has for the most part been absorbed into NATO, essentially crossing every "red line" drawn by Moscow. According to the author, Russia finds itself on a historical defensive. Only Moscow's 1989 project of winning security for itself through an axis with Berlin, has a chance of succeeding, says the author …
    Last edited by Al.; 30th September 2014 at 10:02 PM. Reason: Removal of defunct tags
    "Laws were most numerous when the state was most corrupt." —Tacitus

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    Russia is greatly debilitated by the economic "shock" and wars of destabilisation - Afghanistan and Chechnya.

    There are current Russia NATO talks - are they completely throwing in the towel ? It won't help them.

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    Politics.ie Member Thac0man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyeswideopen View Post
    Russia is greatly debilitated by the economic "shock" and wars of destabilisation - Afghanistan and Chechnya.
    Thats not true. Afghanistan was during the Soviot ear and Chechnya was not overly expensive. Especially in light of the fact Russias oil reveneues have sky-rocketed since the latter. Russias problem is not lack of money, its lack of economic development outside of natural resource exports - as Medvedev rightly pointed out; Russias economy is primitive and needs to change and diversify.

    I dont think Russia is thinking of 'throwing in the towel' as regards it relationship with NATO and the West. It is simply coming to a natural understanding that the relationship between Russia and the West is one of mutual dependance. Putins tenure has seen the West make huge efforts to break dependance on Russian oil, which in the long term could wipe out Russian political asperations. Russians see themselves as European, so have to get along. Europe can in the mid to long term turn its back on Russia, and then its back to wilderness with the big bear; something Russians would hate. Not much prestige for Moscow in being the senior partner with Khazakstan and South Ossetia. They would end up a Chinas whipping boys.

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    Politics.ie Member b.a. baracus's Avatar
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    Excuse my ignorance. Are there two separate identifiable ethnic groups in Ukraine?
    I ain't gettin' on no plane

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    Politics.ie Member Telemachus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b.a. baracus View Post
    Excuse my ignorance. Are there two separate identifiable ethnic groups in Ukraine?
    Russian and ukranian. wading into another thread clueless eh?
    ..the Irish nation can become other than white, by privileging the voices of the racialised and subverting state immigration but also integration policies. – Ronit Lentin

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    Politics.ie Member Al.'s Avatar
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    I dont think Russia is thinking of 'throwing in the towel' as regards it relationship with NATO and the West. It is simply coming to a natural understanding that the relationship between Russia and the West is one of mutual dependance
    Or maybe this has something to do with it...?
    "Laws were most numerous when the state was most corrupt." —Tacitus

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    Politics.ie Member White Horse's Avatar
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    What the hell is the "western war alliance"?

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    Politics.ie Member at768's Avatar
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    Everyone seems to forgot this plan by NATO to take over Ukraine.

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    Politics.ie Member harry_w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Horse View Post
    What the hell is the "western war alliance"?
    It might be a western alliance perpetually at war. Have you seen one?
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    Politics.ie Member The Field Marshal's Avatar
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    From what I have seen of Ukraine it needs to be partitioned as follows.

    Cage 1: For Yatsenuk and hees fellow rats
    Cage 2: Timoshenko and her cronies.
    Cage 3 : The scum from the Maidan
    Cage 4:Enda Kennys friends.
    Cage 5: Friends of the EU ratbags
    Cage 6: Russian Ukranians
    Cage 7: EU Ukranians.
    Cage 8 :Irish Ukranians [This is certain]
    Cage 9: UKIP Ukranians.
    Repeal the thirty-fourth amendment of the Irish constitution :
    Children have a basic right to be reared by a mother and a father.

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