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Thread: Independent Scotland

  1. #1
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    Default Independent Scotland

    There is a parliamentary election in Scotland on May 3. That election can truly have far-reaching implications as it sems that the hitherto opposition-party SNP may well be in place to form the next government in Scotland. They will certainly become the largest party in the Scottish parliament. SNP has promised to hold a referendum on the issue of Scottish independence if they get to power in Edinburgh.

    The current first minister of Scotland(the title of prime minister is reserved for heads of government of independent countries) Jack McConnell has emphasized the importance of constuctive co-operation across the border. His Lab-Libdem coalition has been in power ever since devolution was inroduced in 1997.

    I am fully in favour of the thought of an independent Scotland. Please, Scottish people, do it. If there is an independent Ireland there is no excuse for there not being an independent Scotland. The fact that Scotland and England share the relatively smaal island is no excuse for a Scottish independence.

    Independent Scotland, yes, but only in the case the majority of Scottish voters so wish at a referendum. If they decline such an alternative, they well deserve their fate as being subject to the English whims. Rejecting independence would be downright stupidity on the part of the Scottish people.

    Take Ireland for an examle. Under the UK that region could not even dream of such economic well-being as it currently does. There is no reason to believe that as an independent country Scotland would not be like Ireland. Under the English rule Scotland is forever destined to an underdeveloped part of Britain. Things don`t have to be that way.

    Perhaps an independent Scotland would become a very close associate to the Nordic countries and even become a member of the Nordic-council. But however, be a nation, be like grown-up people do and become independent. The London-subsidies may end but you can easily do without them.

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    I apoligize for some of the spelling-errors in my text but I was so excited about the text itself that I could not bother to check the text before submitting it. Well, I should have, the very basic netiquette: Always read through your text before submitting it.

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    The vote for the SNP stands at around 36% so therefor the pro union vote is still almost twice that of the SNP still it will be interesting, i would love to see an independent Scotland

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciaran
    The vote for the SNP stands at around 36% so therefor the pro union vote is still almost twice that of the SNP still it will be interesting, i would love to see an independent Scotland
    Are all the voters who don`t vote for SNP pro-union? I don`t think so. Many people among other parties are certainly in favour of scotland becoming independent and to control its own destiny. In fact, I`m sure that by this time next year Scotland will be the 28th member-state of the EU. Or perhaps not next year but in 2009.

  5. #5

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    There are four different parties in Scotland that support independence, the SNP, Scottish Socialist Party, Scottish Green Party and Tommy Sheridan's solidarity. To get a true idea of the projected pro indy vote you have to add all these parties together (and the smaller parties tend to poll better than their opinion polls necessarily suggest).

    The SNP is currently winning in the polls (since a large part of the Scottish parliament electoral system is FPTP this is v. important) and the SNP are the only pro independence party running in the FPTP part of the elections.

    The SSP, Greens and Solidarity are all concentrating on the regional vote.

    At the last election the SNP vote fell sharply but the overall independence vote and amount of MSP's went up. It is likely that if only around a million people vote for independence supporting parties in both the FPTP and PR elements that we can win the election for independence.

    Also an important element is that the pro-independence vote is likely to be highly motivated on this 300th anniversary of the union while the Labour party's vote is likely to be less so after three terms of Government and very little change from when the Conservatives were in.

    A bit more information about the current situation including a guide to all the parties operating in Scotland is here:

    http://www.scottishindependence.com

    Actual support for independence has been rising fast (and includes voters from all the Scottish parties including the unionist ones) and the new political umbrella groups the Independence Convention and the referendum group Independence First reflect that trend. The independence movement is more united now than ever before which bodes well for May.

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    If and when SNP becomes the largest party in Scotland after the Scottish elections, the party is under obligation to hold a referendum on independence. It is a gamble with high stakes. It could very well end like the Quebec referendum in Canada 12 years ago with a narrow defeat. Such an outcome would make the SNP government a lame duck.

    The outcome of the referendum may be influenced by the likelihood of the Tories winning the next UK general election and them having very much more negative view of devolution.

    Next May will the 300th anniversary of the union of England and Scotland. Maybe it will be chosen as a timepoint to say thank you for all these years but good bye. After all, Englishness is on the rise in England. Being Scotish or Irish has always been viewed as something romantic while being English has been considered as somehow embarrassing and they have hidden under the guise of Britishness. Not any longer. The average taxpayer of England sees Scotland as little more than a bottomless pit for subsidies without which the English would do much better. The foreigner Gordon Brown becoming PM might be the last nail in the coffin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by THR
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciaran
    The vote for the SNP stands at around 36% so therefor the pro union vote is still almost twice that of the SNP still it will be interesting, i would love to see an independent Scotland
    Are all the voters who don`t vote for SNP pro-union? I don`t think so. Many people among other parties are certainly in favour of scotland becoming independent and to control its own destiny. In fact, I`m sure that by this time next year Scotland will be the 28th member-state of the EU. Or perhaps not next year but in 2009.
    It's also true that there are many people who vote SNP who are not in favour of an independent Scotland. The SNP are a handy option for a protest vote against an increasingly unpopular Labour government.

    The only way that the real number of Scottish separists can be determined is through a referendum. I'm confident that once the real choices are put before the people of Scotland, there will be an overwhelming vote (over 60%) in favour of the status quo.
    My dogma was run over by my karma. Economic Left/Right: 2.00
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.03

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    The main 'British' parties is Scotland are pro union and as they are the biggest parties behind the SNP it stands to reason that if the majority vote for them then the majority are pro union, similarly if the shinners decimate to SDLP vote and become the biggest party those who vote the DUP and UUP will still be a majority so therefore the majority will still be pro union, it may be simplistic but it stands to reason.

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    Regardless of whether the SNP win the election or not I think a referendum would be a good idea to clear the air

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    The next election in England will also be very interesting

    The Tories are starting to become irritated about the Mid Lothian Question to the point that they are starting to ask for an English parliament.

    The Labour Party is promoting Britishness - the cynical would say it is because of the large Scottish, and indeed Welsh support.

    Do not know about the Liberals

    If the English get their own parliament I feel this will accelerate the break up of the union.

    Does anyone still believe that the SNP stands for Scotland No Pope? Won't it not be as strange as the Tories voting for the breakup of the union to have the Irish Catholic in Scotland voting for its retention?

    Strange thing politics
    Romanticist 75%, Fundamentalist 69%, Idealist 63%, Cultural Creative 63%, Postmodernist 56%, Modernist 44%, Existentialist 44%, Materialist 19%

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