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Thread: Cardinal Pell: Liberal intolerance ‘must be opposed’

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    Default Cardinal Pell: Liberal intolerance ‘must be opposed’

    Good article from Alive!

    Alive!
    I know what it is I want, but I cannot answer the question when my conscience asks why.

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    Politics.ie Member Telemachus's Avatar
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    This ties in a lot with an essay by Jim Kalb called "The Tyranny of Liberalism"

    http://turnabout.ath.cx:8000/node/25

    the spirit of that article is as follows, This comes from an interview from ZENIT - A catholic journal based from Rome,.

    Q: How can an ideology of freedom become tyrannical?

    Kalb: Equal freedom is an open-ended standard that makes unlimited demands when taken seriously.

    For example, it views non-liberal standards as oppressive, because they limit equal freedom. Liberal government wants to protect us from oppression, so it tries to eradicate those standards from more and more areas of life.

    The attempt puts liberal government at odds with natural human tendencies. If the way someone acts seems odd to me, and I look at him strangely, that helps construct the social world he's forced to live in. He will find that oppressive. Liberal government can't accept that, so it eventually feels compelled to supervise all my attitudes about how people live and how I express them.

    The end result is a comprehensive system of control over all human relations run by an expert elite responsible only to itself. That, of course, is tyranny.
    ..the Irish nation can become other than white, by privileging the voices of the racialised and subverting state immigration but also integration policies. – Ronit Lentin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Telemachus View Post
    This ties in a lot with an essay by Jim Kalb called "The Tyranny of Liberalism"

    http://turnabout.ath.cx:8000/node/25

    the spirit of that article is as follows, This comes from an interview from ZENIT - A catholic journal based from Rome,.

    Q: How can an ideology of freedom become tyrannical?

    Kalb: Equal freedom is an open-ended standard that makes unlimited demands when taken seriously.

    For example, it views non-liberal standards as oppressive, because they limit equal freedom. Liberal government wants to protect us from oppression, so it tries to eradicate those standards from more and more areas of life.

    The attempt puts liberal government at odds with natural human tendencies. If the way someone acts seems odd to me, and I look at him strangely, that helps construct the social world he's forced to live in. He will find that oppressive. Liberal government can't accept that, so it eventually feels compelled to supervise all my attitudes about how people live and how I express them.

    The end result is a comprehensive system of control over all human relations run by an expert elite responsible only to itself. That, of course, is tyranny.
    +1
    I know what it is I want, but I cannot answer the question when my conscience asks why.

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    Politics.ie Member the_Observer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    And he warned that “modern liberalism has strong totalitarian tendencies.” It implies that “institutions and associations exist only with the permission of the state, and they must abide the dictates of the state.”
    Well, yes institutions must abide the dictates of the state. Especially when a institution has a record of sexual abuse, cover ups and corruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    Cardinal Pell made his remarks amid growing concern in Ireland that Justice Minister Dermot Ahern’s bill on “civil unions” will prove to be a massive attack on religious freedom and Christian sexual morality.
    How is civil unions a 'massive attack on religious freedom? Unless it's a massive attack on priestly authority to dictate how humans may choose to live their lives. Morality can only exist where there is freedom of choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    That includes secularising the services Church agencies provide to society. “Part of the logic in attacking the freedom of the Church to serve others is to undermine the witness these services give to powerful Christian convictions,” said the Cardinal. “The goal is to neutralise this witness to the reality of Christian revelation.”
    So these to motivation behind these catholic services is the prorogation of their ideology to the weak and vulnerable and any attempt to provide additional secular services is then an attack on the catholic church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    A central issue for modern culture, he argued, is the meaning of human autonomy (independence) and especially sexual freedom.

    “The message from the earliest days of the sexual revolution,” he said, “was that limits on sexual autonomy will not be tolerated.” And “this is generating the pressures against religion in public life.”
    No sh*t.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    Faced with the secularist worldview, he argued, “Christians have to recover their genius for showing that there are better ways to live and to build a good society—ways that respect freedom, empower individuals, and transform communities.”
    Ahahahahahahahahah.

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    Politics.ie Member the_Observer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Telemachus View Post
    This ties in a lot with an essay by Jim Kalb called "The Tyranny of Liberalism"

    http://turnabout.ath.cx:8000/node/25

    the spirit of that article is as follows, This comes from an interview from ZENIT - A catholic journal based from Rome,.

    Q: How can an ideology of freedom become tyrannical?

    Kalb: Equal freedom is an open-ended standard that makes unlimited demands when taken seriously.

    For example, it views non-liberal standards as oppressive, because they limit equal freedom. Liberal government wants to protect us from oppression, so it tries to eradicate those standards from more and more areas of life.

    The attempt puts liberal government at odds with natural human tendencies. If the way someone acts seems odd to me, and I look at him strangely, that helps construct the social world he's forced to live in. He will find that oppressive. Liberal government can't accept that, so it eventually feels compelled to supervise all my attitudes about how people live and how I express them.

    The end result is a comprehensive system of control over all human relations run by an expert elite responsible only to itself. That, of course, is tyranny.
    That last sentence appearing in a roman catholic journal just broke my irony meter.

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    Interesting that Mr. Kalb is keen on "oppressing" and "forcing" people whose
    lifefestyle he finds "odd". I find it bizarre that anyone would want to spend an hour
    in a Church listen to magic rituals said in Latin but I don't want to ban them from doing it.
    "I did not intend to be funny. I disapprove of humour".
    Glennshane. 7th. Sep. 2009.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lao-Tse View Post
    Interesting that Mr. Kalb is keen on "oppressing" and "forcing" people whose
    lifefestyle he finds "odd". I find it bizarre that anyone would want to spend an hour
    in a Church listen to magic rituals said in Latin but I don't want to ban them from doing it.
    But we choose to listen to god's word because we know we will be freed from satan's oppression. Liberalism oppresses christianity when it comes to this point.
    I know what it is I want, but I cannot answer the question when my conscience asks why.

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    An amazing, irony-free instance of a pot calling a kettle black.

    I'm aware of no instance in which the Catholic Church, when left free to do so, did not attempt to subject non-believers to its strictures, either openly (when that was possible) or covertly (when it was not).

    We are looking here, methinks, at yet another example of that peculiar Catholic use of language where "freedom" = the freedom to obey Church rules and "tyranny" = the freedom to decide for oneself.

    There's a fascinating book to be written someday on the RC church's use (or - by anyone else's standards - abuse) of language, should some linguist have a mind twisted enough and a stomach strong enough to plumb its depths.

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    MrFunkyBoogaloo
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_observer View Post
    well, yes institutions must abide the dictates of the state. Especially when a institution has a record of sexual abuse, cover ups and corruption.


    How is civil unions a 'massive attack on religious freedom? Unless it's a massive attack on priestly authority to dictate how humans may choose to live their lives. morality can only exist where there is freedom of choice.


    so these to motivation behind these catholic services is the prorogation of their ideology to the weak and vulnerable and any attempt to provide additional secular services is then an attack on the catholic church?



    No sh*t.


    Ahahahahahahahahah.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by mitsui View Post
    an amazing, irony-free instance of a pot calling a kettle black.

    I'm aware of no instance in which the catholic church, when left free to do so, did not attempt to subject non-believers to its strictures, either openly (when that was possible) or covertly (when it was not).

    We are looking here, methinks, at yet another example of that peculiar catholic use of language where "freedom" = the freedom to obey church rules and "tyranny" = the freedom to decide for oneself.

    There's a fascinating book to be written someday on the rc church's use (or - by anyone else's standards - abuse) of language, should some linguist have a mind twisted enough and a stomach strong enough to plumb its depths.
    +1

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    Melbourne's Catholic Church has released the names of 29 priests it acknowledges are guilty of child sex abuse. It comes the same week as an inquiry heard there was a systematic cover up of child sexual abuse, which went on for decades. Cardinal George Pell is Australia's most senior Catholic, and this week he fronted a Victorian inquiry into sex abuse, confessing to the sins of the Church. He says the systemic cover up allowed paedophile priests to prey on innocent children, and the fear of scandal led to the cover up. LINK

    List of 26 names:

    Anthony Bongiorno
    John Byrne
    Peter Chalk
    David Daniel
    Bernard Day
    Anthony Eames
    Nazareno Fasciale
    Desmond Gannon
    Michael Glennon
    Jack Gubbels
    Barry Gwillim
    Penn Jones
    Bernie Mackin
    Terry Merivale
    Syd Morey
    John O'Callaghan
    Kevin O'Donnell
    Tom O'Keefe
    Paul Pavlou
    Dominic Phillips
    Ronald Pickering
    Terence Pidoto
    Victor Rubeo
    Peter Searson
    Ray Whitehouse

    Ballarat Bishop Ronald Mulkearns and former Melbourne Archbishop Frank Little deliberately (and with malice) destroyed documents to hide abuse cases. Pell defended his accompanying Fr Gerald Ridsdale, one of Australia's worst paedophiles, in court hearings. That one priest raped 9 children. Pell admitted 620 children were raped by clergy over the past eight decades.

    Pell also refused point-blank to condemn the rapists and their enablers.
    I watched with glee, while your kings and queens, fought for ten decades for the gods they made.

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