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Thread: Change the citizenship laws

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    Default Change the citizenship laws

    Changes to citizenship laws

    Published in The Sunday Business Post
    Original http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/...story19772.asp
    Sunday, December 24, 2006 -

    Under Irish nationality law created in 1956, anyone with a great-grandparent, grandparent or parent who was from Ireland was eligible for citizenship by descent.

    However, the law was changed in 1984 and members of the Irish diaspora whose closest link to Ireland was a great-grandparent no longer qualified for citizenship by descent.

    As the years go by, fewer and fewer members of the Irish diaspora will have grandparents who were born in Ireland.

    Today, the Republic of Ireland is allowing huge numbers of foreigners to come to Ireland, but current citizenship by descent laws are keeping Irish people out of their homeland. But why should someone from Poland be able to show up in Ireland tomorrow and start working and living there instantly, yet an Irish person from the US doing the same would be an illegal immigrant, subject to arrest and deportation?

    I propose that the law be reverted to allow citizenship by descent to be claimed by those with an Irish great-grandparent and that the Irish government explore the possibility of extending citizenship to all people with Irish ancestry.

    I have lots of Irish ancestors, but my closest link to Ireland is my great-grandmother who came to the US as a child. Until the law is changed, I will not be able to obtain Irish citizenship.

    Eric Hafner, New Jersey, US.

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    Default Re: Change the citizenship laws

    Quote Originally Posted by eric_31
    But why should someone from Poland be able to show up in Ireland tomorrow and start working and living there instantly, yet an Irish person from the US doing the same would be an illegal immigrant, subject to arrest and deportation?
    Because Poles are EU citizens and Americans aren't.


    Quote Originally Posted by eric_31
    I have lots of Irish ancestors, but my closest link to Ireland is my great-grandmother who came to the US as a child. Until the law is changed, I will not be able to obtain Irish citizenship.
    Why should we grant you citizenship?

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    Politics.ie Member TheBear's Avatar
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    <Mod>Moved to Justice.</Mod>
    Heavy words are so lightly thrown.

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    "Because Poles are EU citizens and Americans aren't. "

    Actually in this matter Ireland, as it often does, discriminates against members of the Irish diaspora, despite the mumbo jumbo in the Constitution that replaced Articles 2 and 3.

    The fact is that I know of several EU countries--Spain and Italy to name two--who give citizenship based on a proven blood line that goes to the great-grandparent stage. This means that an American, or perhaps more often a South American, who can prove a direct Spanish heritage can become a Spanish citizen. That person could come and live in Ireland, but an Irish-American can't. The same goes for Argentinians of Irish ancestry--if they an establish Spanish ancestry they can live & work in Ireland, but if they have Irish ancestry they can't!

    There's also the usual question of the hypocrisy of the Irish. They want the US to continue taking Irish immigrants, yet refuse to accept US immigrants.

    And of course Poles know nothing and care less about Ireland, they're just here for the money. On the other hand, countless Irish Americans who have immersed themselves in the history, culture and language of their ancestors are treated worse by the Irish state than any Latvian or Pole who can walk straight thru Dublin Airport.

    I wouldn't expect any change on this, however. Irish people look upon themselves as units of production, worker bees--they have no concept of Irishness as membership of an ancient national family.

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    Politics.ie Member Twin Towers's Avatar
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    Of course those of Irelands diaspora should have first rights to residence and citizenship if return is what they wish. You go to the front of the queue as far as i am concerned.

    Our destiny unfortunately is not decided by us in this new Ireland rather it is decided for us, by people we dont even know never mind elect.

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    Agree with the bloodline argument described above. Also agree that the Tiger has gobbled up our notion of nationhood to a large degree - the euro is more important than the shamrock now as evidence by many of the posters here.

    And for the record when I say shamrock, I mean all elements of it - the green, the orange, the history the culture, the language(s) and all that our new found friends from around Europe will bring to the mix.

    It's why I voted No in the citizenship referendum - if your born here you are Irish.
    Those who think they know it all upset those of us that do.........

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    Moderator Conor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twin Towers
    Our destiny unfortunately is not decided by us in this new Ireland rather it is decided for us, by people we dont even know never mind elect.
    No it isn't. The acquisition of and entitlement to Irish citizenship is as determined by the Oireachtas, which is comprised of elected representatives.

    If it concerns you greatly, why not send your local TD a letter explaining why you think people with Irish great-grandparents should be entitled to Irish citizenship? It's important to make your voice heard.
    Nothing will motivate the lazy / apathetic / Americanised / west-British types to embrace their culture and the Irish language.

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    I did a quick internet search on Polish citizenship law and found the following:

    "Polish nationality law is based upon the principles of Jus sanguinis. Children born to Polish parents usually acquire citizenship irrespective of place of birth. Persons born in Poland to foreign parents do not normally become Polish citizens."

    Looks like the Poles would have voted the same way as did 80% of us in the Citizenship referendum. Fortunately that vote means that we no longer have the ludicrous situation where the many children now being born to Poles in Ireland would automatically have been Irish citizens.

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    Politics.ie Member Twin Towers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conor
    No it isn't. The acquisition of and entitlement to Irish citizenship is as determined by the Oireachtas, which is comprised of elected representatives.
    I wonder about elected representatives Conor and how representative they really are.

    Will we even hear the issue raised by Mr Hafner from any of their mouths?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conor
    If it concerns you greatly, why not send your local TD a letter explaining why you think people with Irish great-grandparents should be entitled to Irish citizenship? It's important to make your voice heard.
    P.ie is a better way of engaging with TD's than snailmail we should encourage our sitting and hopeful TD's to come here. A required 2 threads per week from each or no money

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    Politics.ie Member White Horse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Change the citizenship laws

    Quote Originally Posted by eric_31
    Until the law is changed, I will not be able to obtain Irish citizenship.

    Eric Hafner, New Jersey, US.
    I agree that it is important to recognise the Irishness of those people who are born outside of Ireland with Irish ancestors.

    They should have a right of residence in Ireland and should be able to apply for citizenship after a number of years of living here.

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