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Thread: Book of Lismore is kept in UK

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    Default Book of Lismore is kept in UK

    Visited Lismore in Waterford during the summer and discovered that the Book of Lismore dating from the 1400s and discovered during alterations to Lismore castle in 1814 was 'transferred' to the Derbyshire home of the Duke of Devonshire in 1930 who is the current owner of Lismore castle.
    http://www.routledge-ny.com/ref/midd...nd/lismore.pdf
    Does anyone know anything about this topic or whether the National Museum ever requested that this manuscript be returned to Ireland. Was permission ever received for its removal in the first place? Was it required even?

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    Politics.ie Newbie NapperTandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by birthday View Post
    Visited Lismore in Waterford during the summer and discovered that the Book of Lismore dating from the 1400s and discovered during alterations to Lismore castle in 1814 was 'transferred' to the Derbyshire home of the Duke of Devonshire in 1930 who is the current owner of Lismore castle.
    http://www.routledge-ny.com/ref/midd...nd/lismore.pdf
    Does anyone know anything about this topic or whether the National Museum ever requested that this manuscript be returned to Ireland. Was permission ever received for its removal in the first place? Was it required even?
    I think it is illegal to remove national treasures from the State. It depends on how this book was classified. Who owns the Book of Lismore?? I would have thought it would have been a major tourist attraction in Waterford.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NapperTandy View Post
    I think it is illegal to remove national treasures from the State. It depends on how this book was classified. Who owns the Book of Lismore?? I would have thought it would have been a major tourist attraction in Waterford.
    Unless they like reading Acallam na Senórach or Caithréim Chellacháin Chaisil, I severely doubt they'd have any interest. It's not an illuminated manuscript.

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    Politics.ie Member Catalpa's Avatar
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    If he bought or acquired it before 1922 then it wasn't 'illegal'.

    Loads of Irish material is in England - the Bodleian Library in Oxford is stuffed with it.

    There is a lot in the USA too.

    Its a pity its with the DOD but I'm sure its well looked after.

    Would not be a bad idea to make the Duke and offer he can't refuse though to get it back...

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    Politics.ie Newbie NapperTandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catalpa View Post
    If he bought or acquired it before 1922 then it wasn't 'illegal'.

    Loads of Irish material is in England - the Bodleian Library in Oxford is stuffed with it.

    There is a lot in the USA too.

    Its a pity its with the DOD but I'm sure its well looked after.

    Would not be a bad idea to make the Duke and offer he can't refuse though to get it back...
    Does the National Museum keep an inventory of all the Irish material overseas? They should be actively looking at ways to bring a lot of these treasures back to Ireland. I'm sure they could come to some arrangement with the people who have the treasures in their possession at the moment

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    Politics.ie Member Catalpa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NapperTandy View Post
    Does the National Museum keep an inventory of all the Irish material overseas? They should be actively looking at ways to bring a lot of these treasures back to Ireland. I'm sure they could come to some arrangement with the people who have the treasures in their possession at the moment
    I don't know if the NM does but I'm pretty certain that others do for research purposes.

    Riadach is the man to ask though.

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    There is a Catalogue of Irish Manuscripts in the British Museum alright. Apparently, in the early days of the state, a lot of Irish material was sold off to provide the state with some liquid assets. A friend of mind has to go to New York to view Irish material from the 18th century. Not sure if much of it is in Irish though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catalpa View Post
    If he bought or acquired it before 1922 then it wasn't 'illegal'.

    Loads of Irish material is in England - the Bodleian Library in Oxford is stuffed with it.

    There is a lot in the USA too.

    Its a pity its with the DOD but I'm sure its well looked after.

    Would not be a bad idea to make the Duke and offer he can't refuse though to get it back...
    I suppose you could offer him Laois and Offaly.He seems to own most of Munster already,including the best fishing on the Blackwater.Want to fish;you must pay Mr.Cavendish.

    Plenty of old Irish Ms in Belgium,Switzerland and Italy too I believe.Raymond le Gros plundered Lismore abbey back in the 1200s,did he not? Anyway who needs the book - won't tourists come to gawp at the Dook and his Royal chum Mr.Guelph?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riadach View Post
    There is a Catalogue of Irish Manuscripts in the British Museum alright. Apparently, in the early days of the state, a lot of Irish material was sold off to provide the state with some liquid assets. A friend of mind has to go to New York to view Irish material from the 18th century. Not sure if much of it is in Irish though.
    Mixed blessings this. Some material held in the UK deposits is the only pre-1922 documents available because of the the destruction of the IPRO. Both the British Library and National Archives in Kew hold various deposits - note that the manuscripts held in the British Museum were moved to the BL.

    The British Library is certainly worth a visit for those with an interest in Irish history. It has a 'Modern Irish Collection here: Modern Irish Collections
    "The thing that always annoyed me about traditional Irish historiography was the paradox of its Anglocentrism. People are now prepared, I think, to confront the possibility that many Irish problems are, in a sense, indigenous to the Irish situation." Roy Foster (1989).

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    We should ask for it back.

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