Senator suggests social welfare debit card only usable in Ireland to prevent fraud

Photograph of people queuing at an ATM machine. A Fine Gael Senator has suggested the government consider an electronic payments card to limit the use of social welfare funds in Ireland on "legitimate" goods and services.

Photo: Leon Farrell / Photocall Ireland

Fine Gael Senator Catherine Noone has come up with a proposal to issue social welfare payment by means of a debit card, which would only be usable in Ireland. Noone's proposals also include setting a fixed amount that can be withdrawn in a given week by using the card.

Senator Noone points to the Government target of €625m in savings in welfare fraud as a rationale behind a proposal such as hers. Senator Noone says the card could be used to ensure that people outside the state couldn't access funds. Interestingly, Senator Noone is also suggesting that what welfare recipients are able to spend the money on could be controlled. Noone says this could ensure people spend their welfare money on "legitimate goods and services".

We need to be looking at all possible options to reduce our social welfare bill, and cracking down on fraud is key to this. Under the system I am proposing, social welfare payments could be put directly onto a debit card, which could be used just like a laser card to buy goods and services.

The Government is hoping that fraud control measures will amount to savings of €625 million this year. Social welfare fraud is not a victimless crime; it undermines public confidence in the system and it means tax payers’ money is going to those who do not deserve it.

By switching to a debit card system, it would be easier for the Government to ensure that State funds are being directed at those who need them most. To allow for a certain degree of flexibility, the system could allow a set amount of money to be withdrawn from an ATM each week.

A debit card system would ensure that those residing outside the State could not falsely claim welfare. It would also help to cut down on the black economy, by ensuring that most social welfare funds are spent on legitimate goods and services.

The debit card system could be implemented as part of a range of other anti-fraud initiatives being implemented by the Government, including data matching, identity checks and regular entitlement reviews. I would urge the Minister for Social Protection to introduce the social welfare debit card on a trial basis, to explore whether there is merit to the system.

Fine Gael Senator Catherine Noone

jetttxyz, Kevin Parlon, Munnkeyman and 1 others like this.

242 Comments

seabhcan - 3rd February 2012, 05:10 PM
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Similar system in the US for food stamps I believe.

damus - 3rd February 2012, 05:15 PM
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Great, so I take it that she's in favour of introducing a debit card with a weekly max limit for TD's, Senators and every other citizen in this state as well.

harshreality - 3rd February 2012, 05:17 PM
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Not a bad idea actually. Anything that would cut out fraud is a good idea.

SPN - 3rd February 2012, 05:18 PM
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A very sensible idea in principle - but you'd have to doubt the ability of the Irish Government to implement such a system at a reasonable cost, in a reasonable timeframe, and without brown envelopes.

Mentalist Clientelist - 3rd February 2012, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by seabhcan

Similar system in the US for food stamps I believe.

That's an excellent idea.

I have never heard of the is woman before but she should be applauded for a good idea.

Man or Mouse - 3rd February 2012, 05:21 PM
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I'll be giving Senator Noone a piece of my mind in due course. First I have to get all the facts and names, but glad I got that piece and name to be going on with.

seabhcan - 3rd February 2012, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by damus

Great, so I take it that he's in favour of introducing a debit card with a weekly max limit for TD's, Senators

Nice idea. Could be used to track expenses.

southwestkerry - 3rd February 2012, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by David Cochrane

You can view the page at Politics.ie - Senator suggests social welfare debit card only usable in Ireland to prevent fraud

Two things I can say. One been I thought they [Gov] had no money to spend on running the place but they do for such plans, two we are heading down the road to been a totalitarian state with all this stuff. New stuff been Id cards, new taxes off all kinds and no say in what the top dogs in the EU propose.

Druidess - 3rd February 2012, 05:34 PM
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Who can argue with this?

The only ones I can see arguing about it are the champagne socialist types who think its a good idea to give people a few hundred quid each time a kid makes their communion. Its a really good idea.

H.R. Haldeman - 3rd February 2012, 05:35 PM
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I really don't like the idea of people being humiliated by "food stamp" type schemes. Having to flash an easily identifiable card at the supermarket with everyone looking at you seems a cruel and unusual punishment.

However, if the card could be made look like a normal debit card that would be acceptable. In fact, I would say the idea would not be a runner without that proviso - it would simply stink too much of apartheid if not.

An Gilladaker - 3rd February 2012, 05:36 PM
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After all the water she has drank in a 100 pubs now this what next a cut in senators pay

elliebee - 3rd February 2012, 05:37 PM
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Sure what kind of codology is that? What's to stop anyone living outside the country asking someone currently living in Ireland to withdraw their benefit from the ATM? Would it not be a good idea to request the PPS number on air tickets etc. so the Department of SP can make periodic spot checks.

Diawlbach - 3rd February 2012, 05:37 PM
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With the same provisos as HR Haldeman, I think it's an excellent idea.

And, to that end, I'd ask the state-owned banks to provide the service as a quid pro quo for the cash received. That way, no-one would know, and we'd get the service.

Furryman - 3rd February 2012, 05:39 PM
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What if for instance a SW recipient has to get emergency work done on their home (plumbing etc..) how will the weekly limit handle such a circumstance? Also where I am there are a few local stores that don't accept c cards, what about farmers markets etc...

southwestkerry - 3rd February 2012, 05:42 PM
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I still think the idea stinks as some kind off right wing ideology.

Furryman - 3rd February 2012, 05:42 PM
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@ HR Halderman I agree. There is already enough stigma attached to us many who lost their jobs in recent times without making us wear a yellow armband . Certainly the flow of SW money going outside the State needs to be tackled but this is not the correct solution.

Riadach - 3rd February 2012, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by H.R. Haldeman

I really don't like the idea of people being humiliated by "food stamp" type schemes. Having to flash an easily identifiable card at the supermarket with everyone looking at you seems a cruel and unusual punishment.

However, if the card could be made look like a normal debit card that would be acceptable. In fact, I would say the idea would not be a runner without that proviso - it would simply stink too much of apartheid if not.

Another problem of course is that the shopkeeper could decide what goods he is willing to accept your card for, and what goods he isn't.

Munnkeyman - 3rd February 2012, 05:44 PM
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Nanny-state numptyism at its very best. I hope they are only allowed buy the cheap bananas and the Tesco brand spaghetti hoops.
That'll learn them not to be unemployed.

It won't save a penny, most of the "fraud" in the Social Welfare system is due to numpties in the Department giving people benefits they aren't
entitled to and then saying after a review we "saved" x - amount of money.
Replacing the whole Department with a computer would be the best bet. That would actually save money.