• French Prime Minister says France will need a referendum on the EU Fiscal Treaty

    The Prime Minister of France Francois Fillon has apparently told his parliamentary colleagues that he believes his country will need a referendum to approve provisions contained within the Fiscal Treaty.


    https://twitter.com/#!/Jerome_Chartier/status/169391982437859329


    Francois Fillon deems necessary # # a referendum on the inclusion of the golden rulebudget in the constitution.

    Jérôme Chartier on twitter (translated using Google Translate)
    Fillon's comments are reported by Jérôme Chartier who is a member of the National Assembly and sits on the Parliament's Finance Committee. Fillon is said to have told the parliament that a constitutional amendment to bind France to balancing public finances is necessary, a provision which is contained within the Fiscal Treaty.

    Ireland's Attorney General is expected to tell the cabinet this week that a referendum in Ireland is not needed, though the Taoiseach has told the Dáil this afternoon that there is no hurry on the advice being presented.
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    Comments 85 Comments
    1. sport02's Avatar
      sport02 -
      If France vote 'NO' will they be kicked out of the euro? Cause Noonan said we would if we voted 'NO'
    1. sondagefaux's Avatar
      sondagefaux -
      He said that a referendum would be necessary because it would require a change to the French constitution, which could not be achieved by a parliamentary vote given the composition of the French Senate.

      Of course, the French could always opt to legislate for the rule without changing their constitution.
    1. sondagefaux's Avatar
      sondagefaux -
      Quote Originally Posted by Hogsback View Post
      What kind of credibility will the AG/government have now if they come out and say a referendum is not needed in Ireland?
      Why should a French decision to amend their constitution affect the credibility of anyone in Ireland?
    1. Grumpy Jack's Avatar
      Grumpy Jack -
      Quote Originally Posted by sondagefaux View Post
      He said that a referendum would be necessary because it would require a change to the French constitution, which could not be achieved by a parliamentary vote given the composition of the French Senate.

      Of course, the French could always opt to legislate for the rule without changing their constitution.
      Here's the latest as reported by the Irish Times - seems it really boils down to the forthcoming French presidential election and Hollande sticking it to Sarkozy.

      France 'wants referendum' on fiscal rules - The Irish Times - Tue, Feb 14, 2012

      Without support from the Socialists, who have promised to vote it down, the government lacks the qualified parliamentary majority needed for a constitutional amendment.

      ......

      The Socialists, who won a majority in the Senate in September, are opposed to Mr Sarkozy's version of the golden rule.

      Socialist leader and presidential front-runner Francois Hollande has said Mr Sarkozy's proposal was too vague and should be discussed during the election campaign rather than imposed on the French before the vote.
    1. sondagefaux's Avatar
      sondagefaux -
      Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy Jack View Post
      Here's the latest as reported by the Irish Times - seems it really boils down to the forthcoming French presidential election and Hollande sticking it to Sarkozy.

      France 'wants referendum' on fiscal rules - The Irish Times - Tue, Feb 14, 2012
      This all presupposes that the rule will be implemented by changing the French constitution. It could also be implemented by legislation.
    1. Toman13's Avatar
      Toman13 -
      Quote Originally Posted by sondagefaux View Post
      This all presupposes that the rule will be implemented by changing the French constitution. It could also be implemented by legislation.
      Yeah, but they say that they are following Germany on this, who actually put a debt brake in their constitution.
    1. ger12's Avatar
      ger12 -
      Quote Originally Posted by locke View Post
      A measure of a good leader is one who knows which decisions should be refered to the people. And the test of whether it's necessary is not whether it might make them personally unpopular.
      Yes indeed.

      "When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred".
      Niccolo Machiavelli
    1. Grumpy Jack's Avatar
      Grumpy Jack -
      Quote Originally Posted by sondagefaux View Post
      This all presupposes that the rule will be implemented by changing the French constitution. It could also be implemented by legislation.
      That's why it looks like an election scrap to me. Anyway, it can't happen until after the election so we will have to wait until May to see or June to see what happens next.

      Sure, hasn't Hollande said he will seek to renegotiate the fiscal compact if he is elected....?
    1. greengoose2's Avatar
      greengoose2 -
      Quote Originally Posted by moralhazard77 View Post
      Merci beaucoup Monsieur Fillon.

      De rien M. moralhasard, je vous en pris.
    1. He3's Avatar
      He3 -
      More reasons for needing a referendum than the golden rule it seems -

      France 'wants referendum' on fiscal rules - The Irish Times - Tue, Feb 14, 2012
    1. hiding behind a poster's Avatar
      hiding behind a poster -
      Quote Originally Posted by BlackLion View Post
      Sarko wont be happy

      I want to see Kenny's Birthcert, how can an Irishman be so willing to backstab his country? where is the people power on this issue?
      Why? The French guy didn't say he wanted a referendum, or that he thought there was some great moral case for a referendum - just that one was needed - i.e a legal requirement. If our AG, having studied the Compact, tells the government that a referendum is needed, then Kenny will say exactly the same as the French PM said.
    1. hiding behind a poster's Avatar
      hiding behind a poster -
      Quote Originally Posted by Toman13 View Post
      Actually, quite a few countries were trying to avoid a referendum. And now the uglier pair of the Franco-German alliance need one. Such a fu*king oversight!
      Or maybe the French weren't among the countries trying to avoid one.
    1. hiding behind a poster's Avatar
      hiding behind a poster -
      Quote Originally Posted by Spanner Island View Post
      Is it not the case that as long as 12 countries ratify this it goes through regardless?
      No, it then becomes binding on those 12, but no-one else.
    1. hiding behind a poster's Avatar
      hiding behind a poster -
      Quote Originally Posted by Hogsback View Post
      What kind of credibility will the AG/government have now if they come out and say a referendum is not needed in Ireland?
      What's your point? Ireland and France are different countries, with different constitutions and different legal systems.
    1. hiding behind a poster's Avatar
      hiding behind a poster -
      Quote Originally Posted by Hogsback View Post
      Understood - and agreed that there are differences.
      But my comment was around credibility - I think it would now be be a very very hard sell.
      No, the AG would have far less credibility if she were to claim a provision existed in Irish law whereby if the French had a referendum, we should too.....
    1. Impartial_Eclipse's Avatar
      Impartial_Eclipse -
      Please delete.
    1. He3's Avatar
      He3 -
      Quote Originally Posted by hiding behind a poster View Post
      No, the AG would have far less credibility if she were to claim a provision existed in Irish law whereby if the French had a referendum, we should too.....
      You didn't know about Article 29.4.999?
    1. CookieMonster's Avatar
      CookieMonster -
      Ha!

      Brilliant!
    1. Grumpy Jack's Avatar
      Grumpy Jack -
      Quote Originally Posted by hiding behind a poster View Post
      Why? The French guy didn't say he wanted a referendum, or that he thought there was some great moral case for a referendum - just that one was needed - i.e a legal requirement. If our AG, having studied the Compact, tells the government that a referendum is needed, then Kenny will say exactly the same as the French PM said.
      Actually, HBAP, it seems it is a political requirement cos Hollande and the socialists won't play ball in parliament which needs a two-thirds majority to amend the French constitution.

      Given the unpopularity of austerity and Sarko, as well as the French people's tendency to give the government a good kicking when they feel like it, how Fillon thinks he can swing this past Jacques is beyond me.

      On the flip side, bet Enda and Spoofer wish all they needed to change Bunreacht was a two-thirds majority in the Dail...
    1. Toman13's Avatar
      Toman13 -
      Quote Originally Posted by hiding behind a poster View Post
      Or maybe the French weren't among the countries trying to avoid one.
      Are you suggesting that they actually wanted one?
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