French Prime Minister says France will need a referendum on the EU Fiscal Treaty

If France vote 'NO' will they be kicked out of the euro? Cause Noonan said we would if we voted 'NO'

He said that a referendum would be necessary because it would require a change to the French constitution, which could not be achieved by a parliamentary vote given the composition of the French Senate.

Of course, the French could always opt to legislate for the rule without changing their constitution.

Originally Posted by Hogsback

What kind of credibility will the AG/government have now if they come out and say a referendum is not needed in Ireland?

Why should a French decision to amend their constitution affect the credibility of anyone in Ireland?

Originally Posted by sondagefaux

He said that a referendum would be necessary because it would require a change to the French constitution, which could not be achieved by a parliamentary vote given the composition of the French Senate.

Of course, the French could always opt to legislate for the rule without changing their constitution.

Here's the latest as reported by the Irish Times - seems it really boils down to the forthcoming French presidential election and Hollande sticking it to Sarkozy.

France 'wants referendum' on fiscal rules - The Irish Times - Tue, Feb 14, 2012

Without support from the Socialists, who have promised to vote it down, the government lacks the qualified parliamentary majority needed for a constitutional amendment.

......

The Socialists, who won a majority in the Senate in September, are opposed to Mr Sarkozy's version of the golden rule.

Socialist leader and presidential front-runner Francois Hollande has said Mr Sarkozy's proposal was too vague and should be discussed during the election campaign rather than imposed on the French before the vote.

Originally Posted by Grumpy Jack

Here's the latest as reported by the Irish Times - seems it really boils down to the forthcoming French presidential election and Hollande sticking it to Sarkozy.

France 'wants referendum' on fiscal rules - The Irish Times - Tue, Feb 14, 2012

This all presupposes that the rule will be implemented by changing the French constitution. It could also be implemented by legislation.

Originally Posted by locke

A measure of a good leader is one who knows which decisions should be refered to the people. And the test of whether it's necessary is not whether it might make them personally unpopular.

Yes indeed.

"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred".
Niccolo Machiavelli

Originally Posted by sondagefaux

This all presupposes that the rule will be implemented by changing the French constitution. It could also be implemented by legislation.

That's why it looks like an election scrap to me. Anyway, it can't happen until after the election so we will have to wait until May to see or June to see what happens next.

Sure, hasn't Hollande said he will seek to renegotiate the fiscal compact if he is elected....?

Originally Posted by moralhazard77

Merci beaucoup Monsieur Fillon.

De rien M. moralhasard, je vous en pris.

More reasons for needing a referendum than the golden rule it seems -

France 'wants referendum' on fiscal rules - The Irish Times - Tue, Feb 14, 2012

Originally Posted by BlackLion

Sarko wont be happy

I want to see Kenny's Birthcert, how can an Irishman be so willing to backstab his country? where is the people power on this issue?

Why? The French guy didn't say he wanted a referendum, or that he thought there was some great moral case for a referendum - just that one was needed - i.e a legal requirement. If our AG, having studied the Compact, tells the government that a referendum is needed, then Kenny will say exactly the same as the French PM said.

Originally Posted by Toman13

Actually, quite a few countries were trying to avoid a referendum. And now the uglier pair of the Franco-German alliance need one. Such a fu*king oversight!

Or maybe the French weren't among the countries trying to avoid one.

Originally Posted by Spanner Island

Is it not the case that as long as 12 countries ratify this it goes through regardless?

No, it then becomes binding on those 12, but no-one else.

Originally Posted by Hogsback

What kind of credibility will the AG/government have now if they come out and say a referendum is not needed in Ireland?

What's your point? Ireland and France are different countries, with different constitutions and different legal systems.

Originally Posted by Hogsback

Understood - and agreed that there are differences.
But my comment was around credibility - I think it would now be be a very very hard sell.

No, the AG would have far less credibility if she were to claim a provision existed in Irish law whereby if the French had a referendum, we should too.....

Originally Posted by hiding behind a poster

No, the AG would have far less credibility if she were to claim a provision existed in Irish law whereby if the French had a referendum, we should too.....

You didn't know about Article 29.4.999?

Ha!

Brilliant!

Originally Posted by hiding behind a poster

Why? The French guy didn't say he wanted a referendum, or that he thought there was some great moral case for a referendum - just that one was needed - i.e a legal requirement. If our AG, having studied the Compact, tells the government that a referendum is needed, then Kenny will say exactly the same as the French PM said.

Actually, HBAP, it seems it is a political requirement cos Hollande and the socialists won't play ball in parliament which needs a two-thirds majority to amend the French constitution.

Given the unpopularity of austerity and Sarko, as well as the French people's tendency to give the government a good kicking when they feel like it, how Fillon thinks he can swing this past Jacques is beyond me.

On the flip side, bet Enda and Spoofer wish all they needed to change Bunreacht was a two-thirds majority in the Dail...