• FG TD suggests Irish Ambassdor to Vatican should be allowed share office space with Irish Embassy in Rome

    Photograph from Google Maps
    A Fine Gael TD has proposed that the Irish Ambassador to the Vatican could share office space with the Irish Embassy to Italy in Rome.

    Dublin Mid West TD Derek Keating has repeated his call for a dual-embassy based in Rome to serve both Italy and the Vatican, saying he made this suggestion last month.

    What we need now is some flexibility from the Vatican. It seems to me that if we could have two separate ambassadors in the same building, significant savings could be realised for the Government. If the Vatican is serious about maintaining a strong relationship with the Irish people, given our current economic difficulties, I believe some leniency would be appropriate. The demand for the Vatican embassy to be housed separately from the Italian embassy, when the two buildings were just a short distance apart, is overly restrictive.
    Taoiseach Enda Kenny told the Dáil this morning that the decision on the embassy in the Vatican will be reviewed in time. Keating, responding to the Taoiseach's comments said that the Vatican could accept a proposal to allow the embassy to be located within the Italian embassy building. Keating says that "he ball is now firmly in the Vatican’s court."

    Source: Fine Gael Statement by Derek Keating TD
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    Comments 103 Comments
    1. Toland's Avatar
      Toland -
      This is a good idea.

      Of course, he has two chances.
    1. A REASON's Avatar
      A REASON -
      I thought threads were meant to have a better OP than this?
    1. Edo's Avatar
      Edo -
      makes perfect sense - but the Vatican are so far up their own arses that they want all countries to have a seperate ambassador and residence - even tho that embassy will on Italian soil.

      making the ambassador to Italy - also ambassador to the vatican - is the optimum solution - but the Vaticans delusions of grandeur prelude that.
    1. Bren Boru's Avatar
      Bren Boru -
      who cares....!!!!!!!
    1. Harmonica's Avatar
      Harmonica -
      I am open to correction but I believe both embassies are very close to each other. Whatever about 2 Ambassadors, there is certainly no need for two offices.
    1. FakeViking's Avatar
      FakeViking -
      I suggested yesterday that they do what the Brits did when the street in Tehran where their embassy was on was renamed "Bobby Sands street". They used the address of the back gate.
    1. Astral Peaks's Avatar
      Astral Peaks -
      Poor Derek.
      The Vatican have a sniffy policy of refusing to recognise diplomats who wish to be accredited to the Vatican if they share an address with that country's embassy to Italy, or am I mistaken?

      If this is the case, Mr Keating has spoken without thinking, again.
    1. David Cochrane's Avatar
      David Cochrane -
      Quote Originally Posted by Astral Peaks View Post
      Poor Derek.
      The Vatican have a sniffy policy of refusing to recognise diplomats who wish to be accredited to the Vatican if they share an address with that country's embassy to Italy, or am I mistaken?

      If this is the case, Mr Keating has spoken without thinking, again.
      I do think this was his point though, that the "sniffy policy" was the Vatican's and if they relaxed it, all would be happy again.
    1. Astral Peaks's Avatar
      Astral Peaks -
      Quote Originally Posted by Astral Peaks View Post
      Poor Derek.
      The Vatican have a sniffy policy of refusing to recognise diplomats who wish to be accredited to the Vatican if they share an address with that country's embassy to Italy, or am I mistaken?

      If this is the case, Mr Keating has spoken without thinking, again.
      I posted this on the News Comment version of this page, which is currently only showing one comment, by Toland.

      What is going on with this set up?
    1. LamportsEdge's Avatar
      LamportsEdge -
      Would the Vatican also pay his salary? If not, then I'd say 'no'. I'm getting annoyed about TDs who know this decision has been put to a review spending their time on this issue when they should be a lot busier with other matters.
    1. Mr. Bumble's Avatar
      Mr. Bumble -
      What are the trade figures with the Vatican?
    1. Astral Peaks's Avatar
      Astral Peaks -
      Quote Originally Posted by David Cochrane View Post
      I do think this was his point though, that the "sniffy policy" was the Vatican's and if they relaxed it, all would be happy again.
      Fair enough as far as it goes, but it is really just an attempt by Keating to climb out from under Frances Fitzgerald's political and constituency skirts.

      Hardly deserves to be bigged up on here as it has been?
    1. Nemesiscorporation's Avatar
      Nemesiscorporation -
      Anyone wanting an embassy to the vatican should be made to pay for it out of there own pocket.

      Then ask there opinion.
    1. Toland's Avatar
      Toland -
      Quote Originally Posted by Astral Peaks View Post
      Poor Derek.
      The Vatican have a sniffy policy of refusing to recognise diplomats who wish to be accredited to the Vatican if they share an address with that country's embassy to Italy, or am I mistaken?

      If this is the case, Mr Keating has spoken without thinking, again.
      `

      On the contrary... maybe

      It might be interpreted as a very thoughtful way of keeping the Embassy to the Vatican closed.
    1. LamportsEdge's Avatar
      LamportsEdge -
      Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bumble View Post
      What are the trade figures with the Vatican?
      Fairly concise and straightforward- money is exported to the Vatican and bullshyte is imported.
    1. FakeViking's Avatar
      FakeViking -
      Michael Martin was on Newtalk just now claiming that his inability to make a decision was good for us.

      The proposal to close the additional embassy in Rome was made to him, but true to form he dithered.
    1. Radix's Avatar
      Radix -
      This is merely choreographed damage limitation for a Party which culturally is no different to the catch all FF party which preceded it in Government.

      Kenny by being holier than the Pope has just made FG a hostage to a fortune that cannot go its way given the above.
    1. Grumpy Jack's Avatar
      Grumpy Jack -
      Quote Originally Posted by David Cochrane View Post
      I do think this was his point though, that the "sniffy policy" was the Vatican's and if they relaxed it, all would be happy again.
      But there is perfect logic in the Vatican's stance if you view it from their point of view. It is a matter of strict diplomatic protocol.

      It comes down to this - what happens if a state or states breaks off diplomatic relations with Italy or else Italy suspends relations with a state or states?

      The Holy See is not part of the spat and retains relations with the state or states in question - but is caught up in the spat because the diplomatic relations are carried out through the embassy to Italy.

      That is what happened in the two world wars when the Holy See remained neutral and retained diplomatic relations with parties to the conflict who were at war with Italy.

      It was as a consequence of this during WWI that led to the Lateran Treaty between Vatican and Italy and the current insistence by the Vatican for a separate ambassador and separate embassy building to those with the Italian republic.

      For example, during WWII, the UK suspended diplomatic relations with Italy as the two were at war but retained diplomatic relations with the Holy See with an embassy and ambassador in Rome. As did the United States.

      While few people may be willing to accept this, it is a very important matter in terms of international relations and diplomatic protocol - and is held to rigidly by the Vatican precisely because of what happened during the two world wars.
    1. LamportsEdge's Avatar
      LamportsEdge -
      Quote Originally Posted by FakeViking View Post
      Michael Martin was on Newtalk just now claiming that his inability to make a decision was good for us.

      The proposal to close the additional embassy in Rome was made to him, but true to form he dithered.
      An interesting new political philosophy alright ... will we be seeing a new political tome written by Micheal entitled 'The Philosophy of Political Inaction; Do Nothing For Feck's Sake'?
    1. Toland's Avatar
      Toland -
      Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy Jack View Post
      But there is perfect logic in the Vatican's stance if you view it from their point of view. It is a matter of strict diplomatic protocol.

      It comes down to this - what happens if a state or states breaks off diplomatic relations with Italy or else Italy suspends relations with a state or states?

      The Holy See is not part of the spat and retains relations with the state or states in question - but is caught up in the spat because the diplomatic relations are carried out through the embassy to Italy.

      That is what happened in the two world wars when the Holy See remained neutral and retained diplomatic relations with parties to the conflict who were at war with Italy.

      It was as a consequence of this during WWI that led to the Lateran Treaty between Vatican and Italy and the current insistence by the Vatican for a separate ambassador and separate embassy building to those with the Italian republic.

      For example, during WWII, the UK suspended diplomatic relations with Italy as the two were at war but etained diplomatic relations with the Holy See with an embassy and ambassador in Rome.

      While few people may be willing to accept this, it is a very important matter in terms of international relations and diplomatic protocol - and is held to rigidly by the Vatican precisely because of what happened during the two world wars.
      Irish diplomacy is not tasked with acting on the basis of the Vatican's point of view.
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