Load it up with MSG and sugar.
Jeez it would be irresistable.

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Its only a chat, we ain't the world council.
In 2000 the Women's Institute in Britain gave Tony Blair the slow hand clap to demonstrate their contempt.
It was dignified, restrained and effective.Doesn't Bertie deserve the same scorn. No shouting, no abuse, no agression just a relentless slow clap whenever he speaks in public would be enough to end that man's presidential fantasy.
If you agree copy the signature in to yours and lets get the whole country slow clapping Bertie.

JC (and Fish), I think you are kinda missing the point.

Firstly, everyone agrees (or should agree) that tobacco and alcohol cause more death, harm, misery and destruction than any contraband drug. But since that genie isn't being put back in the bottle, it is moot. Not even worth discussing. Health and awereness campaigns of course blah blah. But it's not important.

Secondly, the findings of the Lancet are largely irrelevant in one important respect: society doesn't need to know the specific toxicity of heroin to know that it is by a million miles the most harmful drug to that society. Even if we were to find out that LSD were 1000 times more psychologically or physically harmful that would not change the need to focus on the real problem - heroin.

Third, your prescription - more tolerance for less harmful drugs and stringent prohibition of the big one (heroin) - gets it 100% the wrong way around. In effect, you are suggesting the regime we have now, and that is a bloody disaster.

Heroin costs the state/society in 3 broad ways: public health, crime and money. Public health: Heroin spreads Hep and HIV, it has a million horrible related diseases, it puts the children of addicts at risk, it requires a lot of man-hours to treat, it kills people. Crime: Heroin related crime accounts for something like 75% of all crime. Money: Jesus, our current system costs a fortune: cops, entrire police departments, customs officers, doctors, nurses, social workers, clincs, rehab programmes, psychological support services - it is a never-ending black hole of expenditure.

Instead of this shambles, if we gave the addicts their heroin on the state a significant number of those problems would be greatly reduced. Just think of crime alone - the drug gangs have their business undercut overnight, addicts don't need to steal to pay for heroin, gardai and the courts can be freed up for other duties, neighbourhoods feel less threatening boosting quality of life, addicts get back to being productive to society, prison places are freed up, customs officers can go after people-traffickers instead...I could go on and on. Similar benefts are easily imaginable with regard to health and money areas too. I think it could save millions per year.

I'd be interested to hear a downside to all this.

Indeed we need a blunt gullible instrument - Enda Kenny fits the bill

Anyone got his private mobile number ? I'll pretend to be a "deep throat", senior Anglo Exec who will reveal all about the cannabis fueled wild weekends of senior FF-ers and Anglo bankers...

Spliffo & Seanie: squalid story of subterfuge , squander & skunk!

cYp

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"Yawn , am I alive yet ?"

CNN now joining the US debate - where's our media ?


Tax marijuana to save the economy?




cYp

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"Yawn , am I alive yet ?"

It's very important. This country is awash in cheap alcohol which is used excessively, causing major problems. Go see A+E if you doubt me. And tobacco is being increasingly addressed by Government because of its health concerns.
In short, the genie mightn't go back into the bottle, but harm reduction while respecting freedom of choice is becoming more relevant, and should be at the centre of all drug policies not just these two.

I don't see a single 'real problem'. Ask Coolmine, which has just opened a facility for mothers of small children (how tragic it is to be writing that) or Merchants Quay and you'll hear all about the problems of cocaine, meth and poly drug use too.

Did you actually read my 'prescription'? That's not what I said at all. I suggested heroin be provided by the state in a system akin to current methadone maintenance, and I proposed decriminalisation, taxation and licensing for cannabis akin to alcohol.

Indeed. No one queries any of that, or at least no one sensible.
However, that is not a reason to disregard the unnecessary costs of criminalising users of cannabis, ecstasy or LSD. The cost of imprisoning cannabis users is the same as the cost of imprisoning heroin users - around 80 grand a year.

I agree. But that just addresses the heroin issue, and there are a series of other issues to address in relation to the overall interaction between the state and personal drug use.
Perhaps you could read back over my posts throughout this entire thread. Then you might get a much better sense of what I think needs to be done in terms of a comprehensive strategy.

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Fun fact: Prohibition of alcohol in the US ended becuase the Federal Government could not collect enough cash from income taxes during the Great Depression.

History repeats itself.

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Ok Skinner, I don't actually think we are disagreeing that much.

I don't think we're disagreeing about anything.

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God, it seems like I'm the only unapologetic proponant of prohibition here.
The fact of the matter is that yes we would criminalise alcohol and tabacco today if we had the chance but we don't so we won't because we know the effort in enforcement is greater than the reduction in use because it is making something illegal which was once legal. Cannabis was never decriminalised fully so there never was that anarchic period. That's why comparisons with Alcohol prohibition in America are not valid. Is it hypocritical? ofcourse, Is it wrong? No.
The legalisation crowd again shoot themselves in the foot when they suggest than legalisation would reduce demand for "hard" drugs. This argument infers a link between the two. And if the using of cannabis if linked then surely an increase in the use of cannabis will increase the use of hard drugs. There is already some anecdotal evidence of this. Those of us who have ever met a coke snorter will likely find them heavy users of alcohol and tobacco too, with the use of alcohol and tobacco being the gateway drug to cocaine.

Fortunately, an intellegent cannabis advocate is rarer than a four leafed clover so I do not imagine the situation changing anytime soon.

Slow news day at the WSJ, that's why this came up.

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Liquidate labour, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate.

Well, there's always one...

Is it wrong? Yes. There are MILLIONS of cannabis speakers in the UK alone, a country with some of the strictest laws on cannabis use in Europe. Prohibition couldn't fail more if it tried.

Nice straw man. That's not what the anti-prohibition lobby argue in relation to heroin or cocaine. They argue that regulated provision would reduce harm to individuals and society, not use. And the Portuguese model shows that they're right.

Straw man AND makey-uppy facts. You excel yourself.
In any case, even if your 'anecdotal evidence' that increased cannabis use leads to increased hard drug use was found to be true, that would only be another argument for the decriminalisation, taxation and licensing of cannabis, in order to take the cannabis market out of the hands of criminals who seek to peddle harder substances.

Well done on identifying the fact that the real gateway drugs are actually already legal.

Transform : TDPF
Drug Policy Action Group

And CNN? Different media, different slow news day?

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