Government in Ireland is a mess. The ripe stench of incompetence and corruption wafts through the corridors of power. People die on trolleys, others lose their homes, flee the country, cower from the thought police.

Reason enough to vote Yes to Lisbon in the Neverendum?


<Mod> This thread has been merged with "I'm Voting YES as we have proven we are unable that we are unable to Govern ourselves". </Mod>

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How many banks do we own today?

Computer says no. actually mmrebel says hell no.

None of the above are reasons for voting for lisbon , there good enough reasons though to drive FF out of goverment.

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Sunday Independent will known be known as FFravda

Definitely not. It's not even relevant.

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Never let the best be the enemy of the good.

This is the kevin myers arguement. We arent up to self government so bring in a dictator to rule us.

that was not Myers point, he was however pointing out that we would be in a far bigger mess if it were not for the EU, and how we have a tendency to not learn from our mistakes and repeat history...

in respect to the OP, i don't think the state / ineptitude of our current governement is a valid reason on its own to vote for Lisbon, however what is a valid point is that with the current governement that could be there for another two years plus, we have a greater need for a supportive and sympathic EU than a pissed off EU if we reject Lisbon again...

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Enda Kenny on FF government: “We’re in this mess, not because Fianna Fáil policies have failed, but because they have succeeded.”

So you're implying that self government has let us down, the great republican experiment has failed? OK
But giving up the remaining last vestige of independence to Brussels?
As Mrs. Thatcher retorted - 'NO, NO, NO'.
There's surely a better alternative than that.

Nope. Someone else in Ireland might do a better job. The mess we are in is equally the fault of the EU because of the single-interest rate without which the property-bubble would not have reached the astronomic heights it did and consequenty wreck the economy when it burst. If anything, the recession should strengthen the case for a no vote, constituting as it does a warning-sign of how things can go badly wrong for individual, small member states when power is effectivelt handed over to their often larger member states over a crucial area of national sovereignty. Having said that, I do agree that at present, remaining in the euro is the least, worst option. But the answer to Lisbon must be no once more, all things considered. To suggest the Irish can't govern themselves is neo-colonial or an EU form of West Britishness (albeit bending the knee to Europe rather than Britain).

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Dr.Bob A 2nd no would collapse the government and force a general election. It would be the end of brian cowen as a credible leader.

sorry but only Ireland, Spain (and perhaps Greece) when nuts on property due to the low interest rates, the government could however have prevented such a boom and bust if they had had the foresight and not been looking at the short term tax gains only. France, Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium, etc did not have such destructive property bubles

if it were not for the euro and a strong ECB we would in the same mess as Iceland, the only benefit of having our own currency would be the ability to devalue to increase competitivenss, even that aside being part of a large major global currency is far better in the longer term.

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Enda Kenny on FF government: “We’re in this mess, not because Fianna Fáil policies have failed, but because they have succeeded.”

We could perhaps become an associated member of the EU, rather than continue full membership as of now.
Restore our national currency which will enable us to control monitory policy.
Regain control of our borders, thus enabling us to manage immigration more effectively.
Many of our problems can be attributed to the fact that we've given away too much sovereignty, thus rendering our own parliament ineffectual.
The surrender of yet more powers to Brussels will add further to our difficulties.
We are still a poor nation in the true sense, i.e. few natural resources, etc.
It's no use trying to keep in with the big boys, we're simply out of our depth, we ought to at least acknowledge that.