Politics.ie
Advertise on Politics.ie

Go Back   Politics.ie > Topical Discussion > Europe > Lisbon Treaty

Hey there!

It looks like you're enjoying Politics.ie but haven't created an account yet. Why not take a minute to register for your own free account now? As a member you get free access to all of our forums and posts plus the ability to post your own messages, communicate directly with other members and much more. Joining Politics.ie is completely free. Register now!

Already a member? Login at the top of this page to stop seeing this message.

Czechs will not ratify Lisbon prior to any 2nd Irish vote: Sunday Times

This is a discussion on Czechs will not ratify Lisbon prior to any 2nd Irish vote: Sunday Times within the Lisbon Treaty forums, part of the Europe category on Politics.ie. According to the Sunday Times the Czech Republic will not ratify Lisbon prior to any 2nd referendum here late next ...

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 15th November 2008
Politics.ie Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: KERRY
Posts: 11,666
Default Czechs will not ratify Lisbon prior to any 2nd Irish vote: Sunday Times

According to the Sunday Times the Czech Republic will not ratify Lisbon prior to any 2nd referendum here late next year even if the Constitutional Court gives it clearance. The Times states that Klaus will not assent to the ratification of Lisbon as long as Ireland has not ratified it. This will frustrate a key tactical argument of the Yes side as Ireland will not be alone in not having ratified Lisbon at the time of a 2nd referendum.
Czechs to delay Lisbon ratification - Times Online
__________________
Seabhcan on EU Enlargement and the Lisbon Treaty: "There is no shortage of cheap labour - Turkey isn't needed."

Advertise on Politics.ie

  #2 (permalink)  
Old 15th November 2008
Politics.ie Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dublin
Posts: 18,667
Default

I'm not sure he has the authority to do that - and even if he does, the notion of a non-executive president blocking the expressed wish of a sovereign parliament would provoke a major constitutional crisis in the Czech Republic. Funny how Mr Klaus' supposed concern about democracy doesn't extend as far as his own country.
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 15th November 2008
Politics.ie Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,254
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiding behind a poster View Post
I'm not sure he has the authority to do that - and even if he does, the notion of a non-executive president blocking the expressed wish of a sovereign parliament would provoke a major constitutional crisis in the Czech Republic. Funny how Mr Klaus' supposed concern about democracy doesn't extend as far as his own country.
And our own vote etc concerning our own parliament etc..........
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 15th November 2008
Politics.ie Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 4,354
Blog Entries: 26
Send a message via ICQ to evercloserunion Send a message via MSN to evercloserunion
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerrynorth View Post
According to the Sunday Times the Czech Republic will not ratify Lisbon prior to any 2nd referendum here late next year even if the Constitutional Court gives it clearance. The Times states that Klaus will not assent to the ratification of Lisbon as long as Ireland has not ratified it. This will frustrate a key tactical argument of the Yes side as Ireland will not be alone in not having ratified Lisbon at the time of a 2nd referendum.
Czechs to delay Lisbon ratification - Times Online
I'm not sure how "key" that argument is. It was never employed extensively during the first campaign; what was communicated was that he rest of the Union was largely relying on us to ratify. And that is still the case; the Czechs have not by any means rejected the Treaty, nor have the British, and it's fairly clear that both countries would be okay with ratification if Ireland votes Yes. So really all it comes down to is that the Treaty cannot be implemented without the consent of the Irish people, which has always been the case.

And ditto HBAP's comment on the Czech president's hypocrisy. Not that any of us should be surprised at this point.
__________________
To live honestly, to hurt no one, to give every one his due.
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 16th November 2008
Politics.ie Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dublin
Posts: 17,710
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by evercloserunion View Post
I'm not sure how "key" that argument is. It was never employed extensively during the first campaign; what was communicated was that he rest of the Union was largely relying on us to ratify. And that is still the case; the Czechs have not by any means rejected the Treaty, nor have the British, and it's fairly clear that both countries would be okay with ratification if Ireland votes Yes. So really all it comes down to is that the Treaty cannot be implemented without the consent of the Irish people, which has always been the case.

And ditto HBAP's comment on the Czech president's hypocrisy. Not that any of us should be surprised at this point.
It's a No argument - that "the EU" was going to try and isolate us so we'd say yes. Since that's not actually happening, it's being repackaged as a victory for the No side. If the Czech Parliament overrules their turbulent President, then we will swing back to it being a bullyboy attempt to isolate us.

What's deliciously ironic, of course, is that Klaus, who was not popularly elected, apparently intends to oppose the elected Parliament by not ratifying Lisbon, in a country where Lisbon is popular with the voter. Watching the Irish No side cheering him on in the name of "democracy" is good value.
__________________
Never let the best be the enemy of the good.
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 16th November 2008
FutureTaoiseach's Avatar
Politics.ie Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Nationalist Ireland
Posts: 30,841
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiding behind a poster View Post
I'm not sure he has the authority to do that - and even if he does, the notion of a non-executive president blocking the expressed wish of a sovereign parliament would provoke a major constitutional crisis in the Czech Republic. Funny how Mr Klaus' supposed concern about democracy doesn't extend as far as his own country.
The ruling party in the Czech republic is the ODS (Civil Democrats) which is Klaus's party. He is an idol to many in the ODS and it is debatable whether the govt will want a showdown with him, not least with PM Topolanek facing a possible leadership challenge from his Eurosceptic wing. Topolanek may need to appease his Eurosceptic-wing in order to hold on. Also a 60% majority is needed in the Czech Senate to ratify this Treaty. The Obama transition will also play into this, as the Czech govt has said it will not proceed with ratification of Lisbon unless the missile-defence passes. If Obama insists on proceeding with missile-defence in Eastern Europe then that will help doom this Treaty. Even after the recent elections, the govt still has a majority (42 out of 81) in the Senate, and the anti-Lisbon Communist party also has 3 seats.

The underlying conclusion to be drawn from this story is that Ireland is not isolated in refusing to ratify the Lisbon Treaty. The only isolation on this matter is of the political elites who support Lisbon. They are isolating themselves from public-opinion in their respective countries, by denying them a referendum, or by defying the no votes in Holland and France to an almost identical treaty (the EU Constitution) in 2005. The people of Europe are opposed to a European superstate, and the politicians are attempting a coup against democracy by defying democratically-expressed no votes. What part of no don't the politicians understand? Lisbon in its present form is dead.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by FutureTaoiseach; 16th November 2008 at 12:27 AM.
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 16th November 2008
Politics.ie Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cavan
Posts: 1,717
Default

Er, Klaus is only a ceremonial president. He has no right to block this, whatever you think of EU democracy.

Ibis, the "what do we do when everyone else has ratified Lisbon and we're holding back Europe all on our own" case has been made many times on RTE, and here.
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 16th November 2008
Politics.ie Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: KERRY
Posts: 11,666
Default

Interesting article in the SPB
Klaus took government for ‘complete and utter ride’
Sunday Business Post | Irish Business News
And Tom McGurk
http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/st...553-qqqx=1.asp
__________________
Seabhcan on EU Enlargement and the Lisbon Treaty: "There is no shortage of cheap labour - Turkey isn't needed."

Last edited by kerrynorth; 16th November 2008 at 12:45 AM.
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 16th November 2008
Politics.ie Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: KERRY
Posts: 11,666
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibis View Post
It's a No argument - that "the EU" was going to try and isolate us so we'd say yes. Since that's not actually happening, it's being repackaged as a victory for the No side.
What planet have you been living on Ibis? That has been an argument from the Yes camp right through the referendum campaign and adnaseum afterwards.
__________________
Seabhcan on EU Enlargement and the Lisbon Treaty: "There is no shortage of cheap labour - Turkey isn't needed."
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 16th November 2008
Politics.ie Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dublin
Posts: 17,710
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demotruk View Post
Er, Klaus is only a ceremonial president. He has no right to block this, whatever you think of EU democracy.

Ibis, the "what do we do when everyone else has ratified Lisbon and we're holding back Europe all on our own" case has been made many times on RTE, and here.
I admit I wouldn't know what RTE has been making of it, but the form I have most often seen it in online is as I expressed - as an argument by No campaigners that the post-Ireland ratifications are a deliberate attempt to isolate Ireland and pressurise it. I didn't see many Yes posters using it as a plank in their arguments for Lisbon, and I wouldn't consider it a particularly worthwhile argument myself.
__________________
Never let the best be the enemy of the good.
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sarah Carey takes a swipe at The Sunday Times over Lisbon kerrynorth Media 267 28th November 2008 08:12 AM
Irish edition of Sunday Times online? aggressivesecularist Media 16 24th August 2008 05:01 PM
Most Czechs against ratifying Lisbon vid Europe 9 11th July 2008 07:41 PM
Irish vote? What Irish vote? Lisbon goes full steam ahead Oblivion Lisbon Treaty 9 17th June 2008 09:54 AM


Advertise on Politics.ie

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:46 AM.