Originally Posted by democrat

Over the years, I have found that it pays to judge each person as you find them (not to base my opinions purely on stories I might have heard about their fellow counterparts). My experience with some tenants has been good, some less so. I recently removed a Romanian family from a house where they had caused over €3,000 worth of damage, and owed me over one month's rent - I was lucky that it was not worse. It pays to be vigilant, but my experience with one family from Romania will not influence my opinions about their whole nation. I am fully aware that there are spongers here from other countries, but we must also recognise the fact that there are many more who are here simply to live a better life within the laws of this country. Pamela Izefbekai's fraudulent behaviour does those innocent, law-abiding immigrants a disservice.

Originally Posted by Seán Mac Stiofán

The logical inference of your statement is that all young African women and girls in most African countries ought to be accorded the right to claim asylum in Europe on the basis that they are all at risk from female genital mutilation. Is this not so? All? Is it practical? Justified? Depopulate Africa until this situation is sorted out?

No. Miss. I could just as easily claimed asylum in any one of a number of countries on route to Ireland from Nigeria, but chose not to. Why? Because Ireland is a "soft touch", populated by gullible, soft-headed people much like yourself.

She needs to be deported to send out a message to bogus asylum seekers that we're not accepting F.G.M. as a legitimate reason for claiming asylum.

Originally Posted by Catalpa

Er Hopi if your looking for childish Carry On in this Thread look closer to home...

But you see practially everyone here does not believe that these two girls are at any risk at all of FGM.

Even if we were to grant them Asylum here on that basis that would mean having to do the same for any other family from Nigeria with young girls in tow who came here and put forward the same type of story.

Please tell us what you think we should do for all the other young girls in Nigeria who might be at risk from FGM?

Grant them all Asylum?

Because that would seem to be the 'Logic' of your argument.

Think B4 you Post Hopi.

Originally Posted by imokyrok

Posters on this site are well aware that catalpa -the man of the infamous list- wouldn't want asylum given to those girls no matter what they faced back in Nigeria.

Originally Posted by DaBrow

Despite the fact he campaigned in solidarity as a young fella for The US Civil Rights movement?

Originally Posted by imokyrok

If thats true -and I doubt it - he's seriously deteriorated with age. It happens. "Grumpy old men" syndrome. Mind you the grumpy old men I know have never sat down and composed a list of races according to merit so I'm guessing if he ever was involved in the civil rights campaign it was because he fancied some girl rather than any deeply held conviction.

Originally Posted by DaveM

Thanks for that corelli. Very useful post in setting out the legal framework. As an amateur lawyer I'm not really in position to argue it with you!

On a general level the case one that just leaves me uneasy. The fact that the central tenet is the risk of torture against two children makes it hard to step back and take a dispassionate view of the legal aspects of the case particularly since, as I've stated previously, I have a daughter around their age. Perhaps that clouds my judgement but the simple prevalence figures for FGM in Nigeria just push me towards a "better safe than sorry" opinion.

I've not really debated any immigration cases or the issue in general on here before. To be honest it's not an issue that has aroused particluarly strong opinions one way or the other for me. What I have found quite surprising is the level of vitriol it arouses in some people and the personalised nature of the attacks that have been directed at those who disagree with them. For daring to question the performance of the Nigerian ambassador during her appearance on The Last Word I was even accsued of being "racist scum" by one of the more head banging posters around here. With the higher number of immigrants now residing in Ireland the possible rise of racial tensions as the economy goes downhill is something that would give me cause for worry. The Cork taxi drivers' union attitude and abuse towards immigrant drivers from Africa serves as a case in point.

Anyway, I've made my point and this thread is just going around in circles now so I think I'll leave it at that.

Originally Posted by hopi watcher

On a point of information regarding this case, it was 'this women' who informed the court that the documention may be false, she was not discovered telling lies, on the contrary, she came clean on the issue as soon as she had information that her husband a had paid for them.

Originally Posted by jmcc

Yet another lie? But it seems that you, like the LTS mob, don't have any problem with using lies in order to further your cause.

The affidavits submitted to the EHCR, in March, by the State apparently contained the details of the forged documents and the fact that Boucher-Hayes et al had never interviewed the real doctor. PI's legal team would also have received copies (Corelli could clarify this point as both teams would have to have the affidavits.). The Sunday Times and the Independent then referred to these affidavits. The State affidavits were also submitted to the Supreme Court which accepted them 'de bene esse' (for the time being). It was the State and the press that detected these forgeries and notified the courts. PI and her pals were left to try and spin their way out of the situation by trying to minimise the impact of these facts.

The impact of these forgeries and lies was clear. It resulted in her solicitor and her barrister coming off the record in the Supreme Court. PI's legal team had submitted forged documentation to the Supreme Court.

With such a dedication to your cause, Hopi, Antonia Leslie and Philip Boucher-Hayes would be proud of you.

Regards...jmcc