Its very simple really. Now that old fashioned colonialism is passé and no longer acceptable in polite society, they try a different tack, "oh now lets all be friends together with our shared history and all that (so that we can screw you in some other underhand way).", i.e. when the game starts to go against us lets change the rules. Anyone who buys into this is a dupe.

There has been a very noticeable increase in the number of errors and typos in recent months. It's most unimpressive.

The worst I have seen was only the other day on the front page. At the end of a story about Eircom, it was stated that Fine Gael had called on the government to 'privatise' Eircom. This would be difficult to achieve, and sure enough the fuller story inside correctly stated that FG want the government to nationalise Eircom

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Supporting enterprise and truth.

Noticed that myself and thought it a bit odd until I turned to the inside pages...

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I respectfully disagree. Of course we need to look at Anglo-Irish relationships in a historical context. And I don't think that is necessarily in a context of being 'shared' but to establish a better understanding of Ireland's role in the British Empire for instance. The serious mistake the article in the OP makes is that it tries to make some political point out of it. And that goes both ways.

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"The thing that always annoyed me about traditional Irish historiography was the paradox of its Anglocentrism. People are now prepared, I think, to confront the possibility that many Irish problems are, in a sense, indigenous to the Irish situation." Roy Foster (1989).

The danger of opinions is everyone can have one!
The Liberal Party successfully passed the Home Rule Bill through the House of Commens but the feudal House of Lords knocked it back. As a result the party attempted to limit the powers of the Lords which weakened thier political position.

A massive push towards the new Labour Party in 1919 left the Liberals with no real solid ground.

Opinuions are like a\holes everyone has one.

The Liberals passed the second Home Rule Bill through the Commons in 1911. The pro empire conservative House of Lords knocked it back. The Liberal Party then attempted to reduce the power of the Lords under the 1912 Parliment Act, greatly reducing their political allies.

The end of World War One saw the growth of Socialism (have a look at Russia 1917)and a huge sway towards the new Labour Party in England destroying the Liberals voting base.

Winston's father was the very pro empire leader of the Conservative Party for a period of the late 19th century.

Perhaps if the writer of the initial post had a proper look at history he may avoid such knee jerk reactions that make him look foolish like so many of my opinionated countrymen.
If he read the article properly and did some research on the points raised he may learn somthing!
The sooner we Irish come to terms with the reality of our own history the sooner we can become a modern nation which doesn't elect clowns who sing on the back of tractors and whose Daddy's were great fellas.

[quote=Thranduil;1573930]very few protestant families were targetted , literally a handful , and none wee targetted for their British loyalties . The only people targetted were those who had been identified as active British agents , often armed British agents whod shot people down . The treatment of these people was in no way different to the treatment given to the other British agents , the vast majority of whom were Irish catholics .
Its rarely pointed out that a unionist spokesperson in the south who pointed out in the Times of that period that her majestys loyal subjects in the south werent being persecuted and werent passing on information simply because they didnt even possess the informtion to pass on had his property burned to the ground in reprisal shortly afterwards by the Black and Tans
what these people are promising is that Ireland should in genral become more anglicised , less seperatist in ethos and take the position that British colonialism in this country is something to be celebrated . As colonialism as a positive and unifying force means seperatism is negative and divisive one in this equation its then necessary to retrospectively criminalise and demonise our sepertist past . And promote the somme etc as a positive unifying sacrifice . Ireland as a whole should be much more anglocentric

of course this argument isnt remotely about a shared united Ireland , its about retrospectively justfying colonialism as a positive orce in Ireland and cementing British influence in Ireland.
a short lived affair though . And patriotism is not part of this agenda


how on earth can a nation or democracy function by accomodating a political point of view that takes the position the nation should have no right to exist as an entity in the first place but instead must derive its sovereignty from a foreign monarch and parliament ? An Ulster identity can be democratically accomodated . Unionism cannot . Once a nation establishes itself its unity and integrity and its sovereignty must be completely inviolate . Otherwise disaster beckons for that nation . War , division and conflict are a certainty. To accomodate unionism means your constitution must accomodate the possibility part of Ireland will be reunited with Britian . This door cannot be left open . Our nations sovereignty must be completely inviolate otherwise we dont have a nation .

Unionists in the north have a veto , therefore are not the slightest bit interested and absolutely no mtivation exists to make them interested . Its only when that veto is in question - as happened in the early 70s when a British pull out was on the cards - that they seek a different realtionship and start talking about possible forms and conditions of unity ..
Anyone though claiming that sterilising Ieland of its seperatist ethos , and abandoning the nations right to exist as a national entity , would bring unity is of course full of it . Its a lie .

Its former leader John Bruton once openly declared himself a unionist in Leinster house during a debate in the early 90s .
Harold Wilson approached Fitzgerald and Cosgrave in the mid 70s and told him he intended pulling the British presence out of Ireland . They went buck ape.s.hit and did whatever they could to prevent that scenario ever occuring . Including the deliberate wrecking of the Feakle talks and peace talks between the provos and loyalist paramilitaries . Fitzgerald has gone on record many times expressing his opposition to Irish unity at any time on the basis the country cannot afford to be unified

fianna fail are no different in this regard however feel the need to wave a tricolour for propaganda purposes

Thats the problem with "revisionism". Objective historical writing is one thing, or even taking a particular line and backing it up, but when it is done for political ends, when the conclusion is advice for the future, thats not history.

I thought it was LGs Budget that the Lords tried or threatened to block in 1910/11 and as a result their powers were limited to three Parliamentry years only?

That opened the way for Home Rule for Ireland...

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I don't think that is anything like what the Irish Times was thinking of. It's not a question of celebrating colonialism. It's more a question of accepting that our ancestors had differing political views and we don't have to take sides. I do not feel a traitor to Ireland because of anything my ancestors may have done. This is my country too: can I have an equal right to participate? Both Catholics and Protestants fought at the Somme: can we not accept that they did what they thought was right at the time?

What if the nation decided freely that it wanted to be united with Great Britain? What if the nation decided freely that it was happy for part of Ireland to be united with Great Britain if the majority in that part wanted that? (Well, actually, the nation did decide that when it voted to accept the Good Friday Agreement.)