is charity wrong?

femmefatale · #11 (**permalink**) 23rd June 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedudeinthehat

yes. I understand that charity has that function of showing social solidarity. But when I talk with my European freinds, they feel that way about higher taxes. For my German friend, they felt that way about the integration of East and West Germany. Secondly she had no sense of resentment about German tax payers contrbuting the lions share towards the E.U. They understand the nature of the social contract that taxes entail. It was something I came to understand myself during my cancer. In college I received the maintenance grant. I think at the time (2000-2004) it was 1900 euros a year. I can vouch that they had that back in one year when I began work. Then I paid tax at the higher rate since 2006. For the year I have being in chemo and radiotherapy, my employer continued to pay 60% of my wage (paid 100% for the first 6 months) and then the govt stood in after the six months and paid me the difference (roughly the 40%)

I for one think we have a strange attitude to tax in this country. If I paid my way for 3 years (not including working through college and summer work) I dont feel any guilt on receiving welfare. Secondly I find it strange that some people resent anyone who has worked and paid taxes and now is in receipt of social welfare. They have earned that right- and they should be treated as a customer (whom has paid taxes/insurance), not as a charity case. When some people mention welfare recipients, it is with the tone of resenting the person rather then the misfortune (unemployment or illness)

Why instead dont we feel that sense of love you mention, that occurs with charity, as being the same with paying tax. Its a sign of social solidarity, and gives you the entitlement to use services when you need them. That is why tax avoidance schemes bug me so much. How does charity avodiance scheme sound. Or avoiding social responsibility. Just an alternative viewpoint....

I agree with you.

thedudeinthehat · #12 (**permalink**) 23rd June 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.De-Regulation

Public services funded by charity, means less corruptibility, better service, better community spirit and no trade unions.

America and Germany prior to 1913, and Ireland prior to British occupation.

you mean the Great Famine, the workers tenaments in Dublin, the US etc. The NHS is recognised as being the main reason for extending life expectancy in the UK, and subsequently Ireland as we copied many of its features.

This recent recession has proved that in good times philantrophy will deliver large wads of cash to fashionable charities, but that in a crash the money dries up. Something that a tax system can bring balance to....

Tommy Tayto · #13 (**permalink**) 23rd June 2009

And lets not forget that there is a new phenomenon developing whereby charity is treated as a business. Only this week it was highlighted that an air ambulance 'charity' in the North had spend 90% of the money raised in the first year was spent on wages and administration.
BBC NEWS | UK | Northern Ireland | Will air ambulance get off the ground?

NOTE: THIS CHARITY IS NOT CONNECTED TO THE ALL IRISH AIR AMBULANCE, WHICH IS A SOUTHERN BASED AIR AMBULANCE FUNDRAISER! It would be a shame for people to get the two mixed up.. All Ireland Air Ambulance - Home

I am always very careful about what charity I give my money to. Many are profit making charities, including some very prominent Irish ones that I won't mention here.....all I will say is do your homework, and don't let your heart rule your head. Make sure your money goes to the right cause!

thedudeinthehat · #14 (**permalink**) 24th June 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.De-Regulation

Public services funded by charity, means less corruptibility, better service, better community spirit and no trade unions.

America and Germany prior to 1913, and Ireland prior to British occupation.

Another joke is people using charity fund raisers to fund foreign adventures. For example that ian mckeevor. Or that irish guy who tried rowing across atlantic. Then climbing everest. Then cycling across america. Like we would all love to have a go at those things right. But- all you need do is say your doing it for charity- and people will pay you to do it. Take as much sponsorship as you need and the charity gets the balance. Why not just give them all the money raised and fund the holiday yourself. As for the fasting for twenty four hours- well that was always popular with the girls in my school for some reason. Go figure. And shaving long hair. The boys. But anyhow.

Left sceptical · #15 (**permalink**) 24th June 2009

The fact that we seem to need so many charities and yet that they are so under-funded, is a damning indictment of this terribly unequal society.

We shouldn't "need" all these charities. If we had a much more equal society, a lot of charities wouldn't exist.

I think the work charities do should be funded by a progressive tax system, and not rely so heavily on the goodwill of individuals, or companies looking to polish up their public image. The charities should also be open to thorough public scrutiny. (Just like in business, unaccountable people do abuse their position of power for their own ends - I have heard about this first hand from a friend who worked for a charity for a number of years - and money you expect to go to help the needy goes elsewhere.)

What a bad suggestion by Mr. De-Regulation, but pretty much what one would expect of you.

The word charity is something that annoys me however. When its used its not so much used to mean social solidarity, which is exactly what it should be about.

Fab · #16 (**permalink**) 24th June 2009

Was it Bertrandt Russell who said that "Charity is the art of defending that which we know to be indefensible"?

myk · #17 (**permalink**) 24th June 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedudeinthehat

3.

My third critique is on what is known as the charity industry. For this i would highlight two individuals. John O' Shea and Fergus Finlay. Some people spend a career moving from one charity to another, often to whichever charity is at that time in vogue.

would you care to elaborate on this issue? what is your problem with John O'Shea and Fergus Finlay. I don't it is accurate to say that they spend their career moving from one charity to another.

what is your point? do you object to people working full-time for charities and getting paid for it?

Fab · #18 (**permalink**) 24th June 2009

Indeed it would appear to have been GK Chesterton.

thedudeinthehat · #19 (**permalink**) 24th June 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by myk

would you care to elaborate on this issue? what is your problem with John O'Shea and Fergus Finlay. I don't it is accurate to say that they spend their career moving from one charity to another.

what is your point? do you object to people working full-time for charities and getting paid for it?

Hey yes my point is about career charity workers. Mr o shea berates the govt constantly in the papers about any issue that relates to his field. The narrow focus of these charities means that any development is viewed through the prism of their concern. Thus a cut to the old age is preferable to a cut to overseas development in his eyes. The loudest voices dominate the scramble for funding. I just think govt can look at the broader picture and distribute funds as required. Charities are in the business of larger and larger spending and fund raising. The likes of mr finlay or mr
O shea thus have to be seen to be outraged as much as possible. That is my objection.

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