Breakthrough Movement

[Mario007]

Hey everyone(yet again). I have a little aspiration of starting up a movement or a political platform this summer. I would like it to be on the right of the political spectrum and at start it would be predominantly based for students, since I will be a student next year and I think it will be easiest for me to collect ideas for for and from students. However I do intend that this movement would be aimed at the middle-class people, business people and the intelligentsia. I have posted something similiar on boards.ie and here in the elections section but right now I want to get an answer from the young peolpe and students themselves. The movement would work mostly on the basis of changing old systems and rebuilding them for the future, if i could say that as popullistically as that.

Here are two main ideas:

1. Have a political system where the government is made up off top experts in their field, not TDs. The Taoiseach, who also would be a top expert, would be nominated by the coalition that will form within the Dail, and he will then pick out his cabinet. The cabinet will have to be approved by the Dail, along with its program. This will make the cabinet apolitical, which means it will take decissions that will be good for the country, as based on their analitical expertise, not on the popular demand. Since every law will have to pass the Dail, this will ensure that that people's wishes will be still listened to. Also since TDs have the power to produce new bills and acts in the Dail, it will but greater pressure on them from their electorate, who will demand that they shall draft out these bills.I do admit that explaining a fundamental change in one paragraph is short sighted so if you have any questions about it please do ask.
2.Flat rate of tax. Introduce a flat rate of tax across the board on all taxable items. This way some taxes will drop, others will increase. The main advantage of this system is that it is very simply and a flat rate is proved to reduce tax fraud, as people generally don't bother putting in the work to avoid tax payments anymore. The decreased tax on incomes allows for more money for the citizen, which he can spend on goods, on which VAT will be taxed, giving the state more money in VAT payments and other such taxes and also supporting production and increasing employment ie more money for the state from new income taxes.To ensure this system is fair I would propose the using of the Negative Income Tax. It can be used as a flat rate of tax across the spectrum with the untaxable minimum, a threshold that would be established and would constitute of the minimum a person needs to lead a quality life, depending whether they're single or married or with children. Above this threshold the income would be taxed(just like the tax credits in this respect) with a flat tax. If a person earns below this level of threshold, however, the difference is taxed and paid to the person from the state.
For example, let the flat rate be 20%, and let the deductions be €20,000 per adult and €7,000 per dependent. Under such a system, a family of four making €54,000 a year would owe no tax. A family of four making €74,000 a year would owe tax amounting to 0.2(74,000-54,000) = €4,000, as under a flat tax with deductions. But families of four earning less than €54,000 per year would owe a "negative" amount of tax (that is, it would receive money from the government). E.g., if it earned €34,000 a year, it would receive a check for €4,000.
This way the administration process and the fraud risk will be reduced. It will also open doors for getting rid off the minimum wage as there is a guarantee of minimal income a person must get. Also this NIT acts as a subsidy for all the social welfare benefits that come to families with low income, reducing the social welfare paid and avoiding the welfare trap, as when the person moves up the ladder of wages his actual income increases.

Other points on the agenda of such a movement:
1. A complete reform of the education system, with continuous assessment rather than one exam to determine your life. This would include a change in the primary education as well, where children would also be assessed annually, with a greater selection of subject to increase the level of knowledge between the children in primary sector, which is among the lowest in the EU.

2.A foreign policy that supports the EU and the integration and well being of the EU members. This would include following the path of the Lisbon Treaty. A vital part for this would also be to create great exchange schemes for students in the secondary schools. On these exchanges they would gain the knowledge of other European cultures and hopefully will learn to accept them.

3.Selling off some semi state companies, such as the ESB, that the state doesn't need. In the case of ESB the state doesn't need it to regulate the prices of electricity as the state can still regulate the prices through Board Gais, which makes owning both companies a luxury that we can't afford at the moment.


For for reading this all I would just like to know who would be interested in these ideas, and which ones in particular. Thanks

[Mario007]

i hate to be doing this posting to bring my own thread up, but does this sort of thing interest anyone? anyone?

[Tiernanator]

Hey everyone(yet again). I have a little aspiration of starting up a movement or a political platform this summer. I would like it to be on the right of the political spectrum and at start it would be predominantly based for students, since I will be a student next year and I think it will be easiest for me to collect ideas for for and from students. However I do intend that this movement would be aimed at the middle-class people, business people and the intelligentsia. I have posted something similiar on boards.ie and here in the elections section but right now I want to get an answer from the young peolpe and students themselves. The movement would work mostly on the basis of changing old systems and rebuilding them for the future, if i could say that as popullistically as that.

Here are two main ideas:

1. Have a political system where the government is made up off top experts in their field, not TDs. The Taoiseach, who also would be a top expert, would be nominated by the coalition that will form within the Dail, and he will then pick out his cabinet. The cabinet will have to be approved by the Dail, along with its program. This will make the cabinet apolitical, which means it will take decissions that will be good for the country, as based on their analitical expertise, not on the popular demand. Since every law will have to pass the Dail, this will ensure that that people's wishes will be still listened to. Also since TDs have the power to produce new bills and acts in the Dail, it will but greater pressure on them from their electorate, who will demand that they shall draft out these bills.I do admit that explaining a fundamental change in one paragraph is short sighted so if you have any questions about it please do ask.
2.Flat rate of tax. Introduce a flat rate of tax across the board on all taxable items. This way some taxes will drop, others will increase. The main advantage of this system is that it is very simply and a flat rate is proved to reduce tax fraud, as people generally don't bother putting in the work to avoid tax payments anymore. The decreased tax on incomes allows for more money for the citizen, which he can spend on goods, on which VAT will be taxed, giving the state more money in VAT payments and other such taxes and also supporting production and increasing employment ie more money for the state from new income taxes.To ensure this system is fair I would propose the using of the Negative Income Tax. It can be used as a flat rate of tax across the spectrum with the untaxable minimum, a threshold that would be established and would constitute of the minimum a person needs to lead a quality life, depending whether they're single or married or with children. Above this threshold the income would be taxed(just like the tax credits in this respect) with a flat tax. If a person earns below this level of threshold, however, the difference is taxed and paid to the person from the state.
For example, let the flat rate be 20%, and let the deductions be €20,000 per adult and €7,000 per dependent. Under such a system, a family of four making €54,000 a year would owe no tax. A family of four making €74,000 a year would owe tax amounting to 0.2(74,000-54,000) = €4,000, as under a flat tax with deductions. But families of four earning less than €54,000 per year would owe a "negative" amount of tax (that is, it would receive money from the government). E.g., if it earned €34,000 a year, it would receive a check for €4,000.
This way the administration process and the fraud risk will be reduced. It will also open doors for getting rid off the minimum wage as there is a guarantee of minimal income a person must get. Also this NIT acts as a subsidy for all the social welfare benefits that come to families with low income, reducing the social welfare paid and avoiding the welfare trap, as when the person moves up the ladder of wages his actual income increases.

Other points on the agenda of such a movement:
1. A complete reform of the education system, with continuous assessment rather than one exam to determine your life. This would include a change in the primary education as well, where children would also be assessed annually, with a greater selection of subject to increase the level of knowledge between the children in primary sector, which is among the lowest in the EU.

2.A foreign policy that supports the EU and the integration and well being of the EU members. This would include following the path of the Lisbon Treaty. A vital part for this would also be to create great exchange schemes for students in the secondary schools. On these exchanges they would gain the knowledge of other European cultures and hopefully will learn to accept them.

3.Selling off some semi state companies, such as the ESB, that the state doesn't need. In the case of ESB the state doesn't need it to regulate the prices of electricity as the state can still regulate the prices through Board Gais, which makes owning both companies a luxury that we can't afford at the moment.


For for reading this all I would just like to know who would be interested in these ideas, and which ones in particular. Thanks

The country has had it's fair share of right wing youth. Sorry Mario but totally underimpressed. Shafting the poor might be your idea of fun it ain't mine.

[Mario007]

The country has had it's fair share of right wing youth. Sorry Mario but totally underimpressed. Shafting the poor might be your idea of fun it ain't mine.

that is your opinion, but i havent seend any right wing youth at all to be honest. and about the poor, just because i'm right wing doesnt mean i dont care for the poor, the system of Negative Income Tax helps the poor to start off and encourages them to move up in work to get more money, that seems fair, doesnt it?

[Panopticon]

It would be more interesting to engage in some kind of debate forum, rather than pre-select the ideology of those who you want to discuss these ideas with. That way, you can find people who agrees with you, then find out what they think about other issues, what ideas you should add, and what ideas you should ditch. When you become a student, you should join a non-party political society or a debating society to advance your ideas.

[Mario007]

It would be more interesting to engage in some kind of debate forum, rather than pre-select the ideology of those who you want to discuss these ideas with. That way, you can find people who agrees with you, then find out what they think about other issues, what ideas you should add, and what ideas you should ditch. When you become a student, you should join a non-party political society or a debating society to advance your ideas.

thanks for the suggestion. I quite like yur idea! I just thought I'd need one or two concepts kinda set in stone if I want to attract some people of similiar issues, but I will certainly go onto some forums and try to set up a debate where people would discuss their own ideas. I was planning to add people's ideas to this movement too, of course, sorry if thatt didn't come acros too well.

What kind of suggestiongs and/or ideas would you suggest?

[sauntersplash]

Hey everyone(yet again). I have a little aspiration of starting up a movement or a political platform this summer. I would like it to be on the right of the political spectrum and at start it would be predominantly based for students, since I will be a student next year and I think it will be easiest for me to collect ideas for for and from students. However I do intend that this movement would be aimed at the middle-class people, business people and the intelligentsia. I have posted something similiar on boards.ie and here in the elections section but right now I want to get an answer from the young peolpe and students themselves. The movement would work mostly on the basis of changing old systems and rebuilding them for the future, if i could say that as popullistically as that.

Here are two main ideas:

1. Have a political system where the government is made up off top experts in their field, not TDs. The Taoiseach, who also would be a top expert, would be nominated by the coalition that will form within the Dail, and he will then pick out his cabinet. The cabinet will have to be approved by the Dail, along with its program. This will make the cabinet apolitical, which means it will take decissions that will be good for the country, as based on their analitical expertise, not on the popular demand. Since every law will have to pass the Dail, this will ensure that that people's wishes will be still listened to. Also since TDs have the power to produce new bills and acts in the Dail, it will but greater pressure on them from their electorate, who will demand that they shall draft out these bills.I do admit that explaining a fundamental change in one paragraph is short sighted so if you have any questions about it please do ask.
2.Flat rate of tax. Introduce a flat rate of tax across the board on all taxable items. This way some taxes will drop, others will increase. The main advantage of this system is that it is very simply and a flat rate is proved to reduce tax fraud, as people generally don't bother putting in the work to avoid tax payments anymore. The decreased tax on incomes allows for more money for the citizen, which he can spend on goods, on which VAT will be taxed, giving the state more money in VAT payments and other such taxes and also supporting production and increasing employment ie more money for the state from new income taxes.To ensure this system is fair I would propose the using of the Negative Income Tax. It can be used as a flat rate of tax across the spectrum with the untaxable minimum, a threshold that would be established and would constitute of the minimum a person needs to lead a quality life, depending whether they're single or married or with children. Above this threshold the income would be taxed(just like the tax credits in this respect) with a flat tax. If a person earns below this level of threshold, however, the difference is taxed and paid to the person from the state.
For example, let the flat rate be 20%, and let the deductions be €20,000 per adult and €7,000 per dependent. Under such a system, a family of four making €54,000 a year would owe no tax. A family of four making €74,000 a year would owe tax amounting to 0.2(74,000-54,000) = €4,000, as under a flat tax with deductions. But families of four earning less than €54,000 per year would owe a "negative" amount of tax (that is, it would receive money from the government). E.g., if it earned €34,000 a year, it would receive a check for €4,000.
This way the administration process and the fraud risk will be reduced. It will also open doors for getting rid off the minimum wage as there is a guarantee of minimal income a person must get. Also this NIT acts as a subsidy for all the social welfare benefits that come to families with low income, reducing the social welfare paid and avoiding the welfare trap, as when the person moves up the ladder of wages his actual income increases.

Other points on the agenda of such a movement:
1. A complete reform of the education system, with continuous assessment rather than one exam to determine your life. This would include a change in the primary education as well, where children would also be assessed annually, with a greater selection of subject to increase the level of knowledge between the children in primary sector, which is among the lowest in the EU.

2.A foreign policy that supports the EU and the integration and well being of the EU members. This would include following the path of the Lisbon Treaty. A vital part for this would also be to create great exchange schemes for students in the secondary schools. On these exchanges they would gain the knowledge of other European cultures and hopefully will learn to accept them.

3.Selling off some semi state companies, such as the ESB, that the state doesn't need. In the case of ESB the state doesn't need it to regulate the prices of electricity as the state can still regulate the prices through Board Gais, which makes owning both companies a luxury that we can't afford at the moment.


For for reading this all I would just like to know who would be interested in these ideas, and which ones in particular. Thanks

My God, you're the dullest young fella I've ever come across. Right wing parliamentary reform?? Why don't you explore anarchism or something? You're a teenager for goodness sake. It's you're turn to allow the potential of the human race to be born again. Create. If there was any tragedy to come out of the Celtic Tiger it was youths such as yourself. I'll bet you have a poster of McDowell beside that of Phil Collins don't you.

To horrendously misquote - If you're not a revolutionary at 18 you're a coward, if you're still one at forty you're a fool.

[Concerned Irishman]

It also says you're an admin?

[Mario007]

It also says you're an admin?

yes i know, its a bit odd...and when i wento into youth politics it said that last post(well before you posted your reply) was made by Mario007...so it's just strange to be honest

[oracularspectacular]

However I do intend that this movement would be aimed at the middle-class people, business people and the intelligentsia.

Start off on an elitist, pompous note, sure key to success.

1. Have a political system where the government is made up off top experts in their field, not TDs.

You're going to need to go into a bit more detail here mario - how would these "experts" be chosen, and by whom? I can only assume you're talking about a total departure from democracy?


These are only the least of my issues with your post, but I don't have time to go into the economic stuff right now, other than to say, it's tripe.