Young Fine Gael launch 'post a brick' campaign

[rockofcashel]

Look Rocky, lets knock those load of nonsense on the head once and for all ...

Rock you seem to struggle to understand the basic idea behind the SSIA style scheme.

I understand the SSIA scheme perfectly well Rocky, don't know if that comment was meant to be patronising, but I'll try my best not to make my answer to be patronising.

The SSIA scheme, as currently formulated, allowed people, who saved in certain institutions, under certain conditions, to put in a maximum of 250e per month into a savings account, which would be creditted by a bonus from the Government by €1 for every €4 saved.

In FG's scheme, they are suggesting, that a FG government, would also put a bonus €1 for €4 saved, but in a 2 year period. This would be to purchase a home as a first time buyer.

You still have not given me any justification as to why I, as a taxpayer, should help you for example, to buy a house.

Why should I do it ? What help did you give me to buy my home ?

Now that may sound heartless, but here's the rub. People cannot buy a house because of the price of houses. However, basic supply and demand economics suggest, that if the demand for houses fall, because people cannot afford them, then guess what, eventually the price will also fall, making them more affordable.

All by itself. Its called the "invisible hand" Economics 101.

Instead, what you are suggesting, is that the taxpayer, through some nonsensical SSIA style scheme, should subsidise the private purchase of homes by helping you raise a deposit.

Economic nonsense. Worse than repaying taxi drivers or eircom shareholders.

You get what you comparatively put into it. In the original SSIA scheme people put in varying amounts into it and hence they got varying amounts from the government, so no everyone didn’t get the same benefit.

But, there was a maximum amount of benefit. In the FG suggested scheme, there is no maximum amount, because atrificially subsidised house prices will simply continue to rise as the benefits from the taxpayers keep paying for deposits.

On the issue of the differences between house prices, the person from Dublin will have to pay a far larger mortgage and right now have to pay a far larger mortgage. That’s just the way things work, there isn’t much you go do about it.

Yes there is. I can refuse to subsidise you because you choose to live in Dublin.

Rock the idea behind this is to make it possible for first time buyers to pay for a deposit on a house, which in many cases isn’t possible right now.

I know only too well. And I hugely sympathise with this. However, throwing more money at developers will not ease the situation, it will make it worse.

Why make taxpayers foot the bill for the spiralling cost of rezoned development land ?

Instead, as Gladstone suggested, why not simply have the local authorities build more houses, and sell them to buyers at cost price, thereby taking the large developers out of the equation altogether ?

The inability of people to pay a deposit has help lead to 100% mortgages and these are a major problem in Ireland. They lead to a situation where people have negative equity.

Peoples stupidity to borrow beyond their means, and lie about their earnings on income documentation, and getting their parents to re-mortgage their homes to pay deposits, and robbing Peter to pay Paul, and letting developers make windfall profits on rezonings and any number of other stupid policy decisions have lead to a situation where people cannot afford houses, and where negative equity is a distinct possibility.

Putting more money into an overheated market, will exacerbate the problem even further.

This means that lets say houses prices go down even just a tiny amount. People will now have negative equity, where they wouldn’t if they had a deposit. This then means that by selling their house they will incapable of paying off their mortgage and it doesn’t take a genius to work out that will lead to a massive crisis in Ireland because people won’t be able to sell their house.

Why is it a huge problem if people can't sell their houses ?

Heres an idea.. let them live in their houses. My house could devalue by 200,000 and it wouldn't make any difference to me. I would still have the same mortgage repayment every month, and I'd still live in it.

The only people who would have a problem, are the speculators who own multiple properties, and now can't cover their repayments through low rents, or sell and break even.

Tough on them. They were the ones who drove the prices up in the first place.

The idea behind this policy is to solve this problem and to help people buy houses, so two birds with one stone, protect our economy and help people buy houses.

Bull************************. This policy would only artificially keep house prices up.

One thing like the SSIA scheme I imagine it would be €1 for every €4, not €1 for every €2 so sorry about my mistake there. But in the case of time it is for two years not four as in the case of SSIA. That's fact, that I was told from a person who'd know.

So you still think, I should pay people to make a 25% return on investment, in two years, because you can't buy a house ?

[Rocky]

I understand the SSIA scheme perfectly well Rocky, don't know if that comment was meant to be patronising, but I'll try my best not to make my answer to be patronising.

It wasn’t meant to be.

The SSIA scheme, as currently formulated, allowed people, who saved in certain institutions, under certain conditions, to put in a maximum of 250e per month into a savings account, which would be creditted by a bonus from the Government by €1 for every €4 saved.

In FG's scheme, they are suggesting, that a FG government, would also put a bonus €1 for €4 saved, but in a 2 year period. This would be to purchase a home as a first time buyer.

That’s my reading of it.

You still have not given me any justification as to why I, as a taxpayer, should help you for example, to buy a house.

Why should I do it ? What help did you give me to buy my home ?

Why should you pay for someone else heart operation, if you know that if you ever have heart problems you can just use your private Insurance? Why should you pay for buses, if you never ride buses? That’s how taxation works rock.

Now that may sound heartless, but here's the rub. People cannot buy a house because of the price of houses. However, basic supply and demand economics suggest, that if the demand for houses fall, because people cannot afford them, then guess what, eventually the price will also fall, making them more affordable.

All by itself. Its called the "invisible hand" Economics 101.

Instead, what you are suggesting, is that the taxpayer, through some nonsensical SSIA style scheme, should subsidise the private purchase of homes by helping you raise a deposit.

Economic nonsense. Worse than repaying taxi drivers or eircom shareholders.

See the problem is house prices aren’t falling even though first time buyers can’t afford them because non first time buyers are over inflating the market by buying several houses which they then rent and use the rent to pay off the mortgage and make a nice little profit for themselves. The simple fact that for these people is that the house can pay for itself means that first time buyers can never compete with them. That’s a major problem in all this and needs to be dealt with.

Yes there is. I can refuse to subsidise you because you choose to live in Dublin.

One person doesn’t choose the exact purpose their taxation money goes to.

Peoples stupidity to borrow beyond their means, and lie about their earnings on income documentation, and getting their parents to re-mortgage their homes to pay deposits, and robbing Peter to pay Paul, and letting developers make windfall profits on rezonings and any number of other stupid policy decisions have lead to a situation where people cannot afford houses, and where negative equity is a distinct possibility.

People do all this because they can’t afford a house any other way.

Why is it a huge problem if people can't sell their houses ?

Heres an idea.. let them live in their houses. My house could devalue by 200,000 and it wouldn't make any difference to me. I would still have the same mortgage repayment every month, and I'd still live in it.

The only people who would have a problem, are the speculators who own multiple properties, and now can't cover their repayments through low rents, or sell and break even.

Tough on them. They were the ones who drove the prices up in the first place.

First thing what happens if they need to move house because they get a new job in a distance place. I doubt it’s a nice feeling to know you’re basically trapped in.

The second group is the people who are playing a huge part in fueling our economy. If their in trouble, then we're all in trouble. That shouldn’t have been allowed to happen, but it has.

********. This policy would only artificially keep house prices up.

Not necessarily because it won’t affect a major group in the housing market, the group who are playing the most important role in keeping prices so high.

So you still think, I should pay people to make a 25% return on investment, in two years, because you can't buy a house ? :roll

I didn’t have a SSIA because I was too young to get one, yet I have to pay for yours. Deal with it.

[rockofcashel]

See the problem is house prices aren’t falling even though first time buyers can’t afford them because non first time buyers are over inflating the market by buying several houses which they then rent and use the rent to pay off the mortgage and make a nice little profit for themselves. The simple fact that for these people is that the house can pay for itself means that first time buyers can never compete with them. That’s a major problem in all this and needs to be dealt with.

Try a wealth tax, plain and simple. If people own more than one house, tax the living crap out of them for the privilege. There the ones with the money to pay for more than one house.

Or tax the windfall profit on property speculators

I pay for the health service and the buses in Dublin because guess what.. I can use them if I need them.

I refuse to pay for your house because guess what .. its private property.

Why should I pay for someone elses private property ?

So you still think, I should pay people to make a 25% return on investment, in two years, because you can't buy a house ? :roll

I didn’t have a SSIA because I was too young to get one, yet I have to pay for yours. Deal with it.

You don't have to pay for mine. Guess why ? I didn't get one. Because it was a grubby little scheme designed to give taxpayers money, to people who could already afford to save money. In fact, I think the SSIA scheme was a bloody disgrace. €550 per year diverted from Government taxation, away from hospitals, school, public services etc .. because people couldn't stop spending money ? Ridiculous

[Ronanr]

Fine Gael proposals:

Frontload mortgage interest relief to help young homeowners in the difficult early years.

This seems like quite a good idea. Does anyone on here oppose it?

Fine Gael will overhaul and dramatically expand the (Shared Ownership) Scheme

That would cost quite a bit of money. Has Fine Gael any costings on this proposal?

Housing Ireland will step in where Local Authorities fail to provide houses, will be empowered to work directly with the private sector, in tandem with the Local Authority, to get houses built

Who will decide when the local authorities are failing?

What will the perametors be?

[Larkinite]

Rocky, Since you did not reply the first time I'll give you a second chance to give me your opinion on the Piece below..


Rocky would you agree with the Government ~Buying all land for agrictultural prices, and the STATE Building ALL houses. And thus the state would sell the houses at a far less cost than currently is the case, as they would not have so many middlemen as we currently have. The state would buy the land at agricultural prices and no higher, and since it would be buying building supplies in bulk it could negotiate a good deal woth the suppliers. And if the matericla and be made and sourced in Ireland, the state should set up tis own facilities to produce the stuff, therebye they only pay the price it cost to make the stuff etc. So If a House cost €130,000 to build, the state would sell it to the Purchaser for €130,000 NOT €350-400,000 as would currently be the case, due to rezonings and all the other stuff 0- do you agree with my proposal as outlined above? If not, why not??

[Gladstone]

I was asking it in the way you'd ask "do these idiots even HAVE a housing policy", expecting the answer would be no.

And your expectations were proven awrong. That sounds like a result.

Whether they have good policies or not is a different question, but at least they've got your attention.

Your missing the point, Im insulted that FG think Im so retarded that they can't just explain their policy because I'm too stupid to get it and need my attention to be grabbed by shiney colourd lego bricks first....

Policies on their own are colourless and uninteresting

People aren't retards it's just that politicians treat them like they are.
Someone who can't afford a home will have no problem understanding a housing policy before an election, they don't need to be demeaned treated like retards like this.

How is it treating people like retards? It's YFG not FG starting a campaign to send the government Lego bricks because their cheaper and easier to attain then real bricks to highlight the difficulty that people are having buying a house, which the government are doing nothing to solve. What do you propose we do, send the government our housing policy?

FFS relax.

No, send the PEOPLE your housing policy, package im promote it and target it at the right group of voters.

[john geraghty]

The tactic of sending bricks to ones representative was emplyed recently in the US. Constiuents in Texas sent bricks to members of the Senate and the House of Represntatives, urging the construction of a border wall with Mexico.
This is perhaps the one clever invention of Fine Gael and it has already been done.
John