Second debate: McCain v Obama

[junketman]

Obama - we will ignore Pakistan's borders, sovereignty etc to attack them if we can find Osama there......hardly likely to gain support there???

I think it's common knowledge among those in the know that the Taliban and allies can't be defeated in Afghanistan.

There is an assembly line of fighters trained and educated in Pakistan who merely fall off the line in Afghanistan. And there seems to be an endless supply of these fighters coming from the madrasses along the border, many funded I might add, by that US ally in the war on terror, the Saudis. Just another example of the disconnected strategy of the Americans, with allies such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia playing both sides.

Funding needs to be cut off from these Madrasses and let them whither. The start of the assembly line needs to be taken on, not just the end. That I believe will be Obama's strategy, which is a perfectly logical one. McCain/Palin would just keep sending in more troops to tackle the end of the assembly line, as they advocated in Iraq. You cannot win the war that way.

[Kerrygold]

I don't think there's any question about who won last nights debate and won it convincingly. Obama.

All three Republican commentators on CNN gave it to Obama, including 2 who would normally defend McCain.

He was more concise in his answers, he looked a lot more comfortable and connected with people and what they are going through. McCain just reinforiced the view that he is out of touch. Obama was also a lot better at slapping down McCain's attacks and his "Bomb Iran" remark really put McCain on the back foot.

The polls on CNN gave it to Obama overwhelmingly and worryingly for McCain, Obama is seen as been a better leader, more capable of handling Iraq, and better on the Economy by a staggering 22%.

There have been suggestions that McCain is a nasty piece of work (See Rolling Stone article) and last night confirmed that for me. If he doesn't get his way he goes off in a huff and his leaving the hall early showed that.

[khavakoz]

Reading the comments here - makes me have serious doubts about the sanity of some of the posters.

Obama went in to the debate needing to achieve two things - to link McCain comprehensively to the Bush Administration and to engage the concerns of Middle America. He knocked both tasks out of the park. He was on-message consistently to McCain==Bush - he mentioned it in every single answer in a multiplicity of ways.

As to connecting with Middle America - consensus is that his consistent use of 'you' his posture and tone allied to the calm delivery of his answers were the key. His answers on Health Care, Iraq and the economy were more focussed than previously.

McCain needed to put clear water between himself and Obama - he did that, but not in any areas of concern to voters. His consistent use of 'My friends' came across as patronising, his posture - stalking Obama around the platform - was more akin to Gore's appalling Town Hall performance against Dubya in '00.

On the economy and health care he had some great debating points, but rushed through them to get to the sniping at Obama - something which was doing him no good at all these past two weeks on the campaign trail and wasn't going to do him much better in this town hall debate. His campaign strategy - the wiser more experienced man - was completely lost, especially after Obama turned it around savagely on the Iraq war issue. "That one" even gave the world a youtube moment to use against him over and over.

The debate format itself, by the way, was shocking poor. The questions were awful, the lack of reaction shots was dreadful, the prevention of candidate interaction was frustrating. By far the biggest disappointment was Tom Brokaw - his treatment of both candidates was simply appalling.

Overall, Obama did what he was supposed to and did it well enough, while McCain just tried and only occasionally succeeded. Not a no-score draw, and certainly not a McCain win. That's his strongest debate are (Foreign policy) and his strongest debate format (town hall) both played and lost.

[seabhcan]

Reading the comments here - makes me have serious doubts about the sanity of some of the posters.

Obama went in to the debate needing to achieve two things - to link McCain comprehensively to the Bush Administration and to engage the concerns of Middle America. He knocked both tasks out of the park. He was on-message consistently to McCain==Bush - he mentioned it in every single answer in a multiplicity of ways.

As to connecting with Middle America - consensus is that his consistent use of 'you' his posture and tone allied to the calm delivery of his answers were the key. His answers on Health Care, Iraq and the economy were more focussed than previously.

McCain needed to put clear water between himself and Obama - he did that, but not in any areas of concern to voters. His consistent use of 'My friends' came across as patronising, his posture - stalking Obama around the platform - was more akin to Gore's appalling Town Hall performance against Dubya in '00.

On the economy and health care he had some great debating points, but rushed through them to get to the sniping at Obama - something which was doing him no good at all these past two weeks on the campaign trail and wasn't going to do him much better in this town hall debate. His campaign strategy - the wiser more experienced man - was completely lost, especially after Obama turned it around savagely on the Iraq war issue. "That one" even gave the world a youtube moment to use against him over and over.

The debate format itself, by the way, was shocking poor. The questions were awful, the lack of reaction shots was dreadful, the prevention of candidate interaction was frustrating. By far the biggest disappointment was Tom Brokaw - his treatment of both candidates was simply appalling.

Overall, Obama did what he was supposed to and did it well enough, while McCain just tried and only occasionally succeeded. Not a no-score draw, and certainly not a McCain win. That's his strongest debate are (Foreign policy) and his strongest debate format (town hall) both played and lost.

Good summary - those were my impressions exactly. I think McCain now has little chance of winning the vote, but he still has a chance at wining the count.

[FutureTaoiseach]

The Republicans are going to hold the White House. Obama performed better than I suspected in the 'town hall' format, which the media said favoured McCain. And the reference to Obama as "that one" may come back to haunt him with African-American voters and White liberals. Nonetheless, McCain will win. Kerry won all 3 debates in 2004 and went on to lose.

[seabhcan]

The Republicans are going to hold the White House. Obama performed better than I suspected in the 'town hall' format, which the media said favoured McCain. And the reference to Obama as "that one" may come back to haunt him with African-American voters and White liberals. Nonetheless, McCain will win. Kerry won all 3 debates in 2004 and went on to lose.

You might be right sadly. Greg Palast was on BBC last night with a report on the Republican plans to legally challenge about 3 million first time voters. They will have lawyers in black districts threatening jail on 'suspect' voters. They are also succeeding in disenfranchising all people who had their mortgage foreclosed in the last 6 months on the basis that they gave a false or out of date address when registering - that amounts to another 3 million democrats. Palast visited the offices of the Repblicans in Ohio, which were kindly donated by a foreclosure company which has kindly opened their client book to the republicans.

However, if Obama goes into November with a 5-10% lead in the polls and McCain is declared the winner, things could get ugly.

[Sierra]

The Republicans are going to hold the White House. Obama performed better than I suspected in the 'town hall' format, which the media said favoured McCain. And the reference to Obama as "that one" may come back to haunt him with African-American voters and White liberals. Nonetheless, McCain will win. Kerry won all 3 debates in 2004 and went on to lose.

Remember: A lot has happened since the last election, especially on the economy front.

At times, I feel people have forgotten this.

[myksav]

The Republicans are going to hold the White House. Obama performed better than I suspected in the 'town hall' format, which the media said favoured McCain. And the reference to Obama as "that one" may come back to haunt him with African-American voters and White liberals. Nonetheless, McCain will win. Kerry won all 3 debates in 2004 and went on to lose.

How did Kerry hold in the polls during that election? He didn't have the consistenant lead that the Obama campaign is maintaining so far.

Obama did do better than many expected or assumed. But McCain did much worse than he was capable in that setting. That itself will have an effect on voters thinking. Like the Biden-Palin debate.

Palin is usually much better at debate than that performance.
McCain is usually much better than last nights performance.

Biden did better than expected in his debate. Minimal gaffe's.
Obama did better than expected.

One pair performing worse than they should, one pair doing better than expected.

[FutureTaoiseach]

Remember: A lot has happened since the last election, especially on the economy front.

At times, I feel people have forgotten this.

The White vote in the US has voted Republican in literally every single presidential election since 1968, and they remain at least 75% of those likely to vote this year. Kerry lost them by 17% to Bush in 2004. Obama will need to make serious inroads with this group, and it is debatable whether that is possible for an African-American candidate, especially given racism in the Southern states.

[Oldira1]

You might be right sadly. Greg Palast was on BBC last night with a report on the Republican plans to legally challenge about 3 million first time voters. They will have lawyers in black districts threatening jail on 'suspect' voters. They are also succeeding in disenfranchising all people who had their mortgage foreclosed in the last 6 months on the basis that they gave a false or out of date address when registering - that amounts to another 3 million democrats. Palast visited the offices of the Repblicans in Ohio, which were kindly donated by a foreclosure company which has kindly opened their client book to the republicans.

However, if Obama goes into November with a 5-10% lead in the polls and McCain is declared the winner, things could get ugly.

Pure Hyperbole. The Republicans are a nasty bunch alright but this election will not be close. If Obama can campaign in Indiana, one of the reddest states, less than a month before the election then you can be sure they expect to come close to winning it. Obama is targeting 8 red states this year (states that Bush won in 2000) and he only needs to win ONE. All the republican machination wont work this time and they know it. On the ground MCain is being swamped by Obama workers. The fact that Palin has to go to Omaha Nebraska to try and save ONE electoral vote shows how much trouble McCain is in.