Have women damaged themselves?

[Universal_001]

At the start of the campagn which I watched very closely I would have been happy to see either Obama or Clinton win, and I was so glad to see a woman finally get a shot at the white house, I didn't think a woman would be any better or worse, I just thought it was high time a woman was elected.

After super tuesday the negative campagn tactics, the pandering and the constant moving of the goalposts turned me off Hillary Clinton forever, and her lack of remorse over her Iraq vote even more so. (I still think had she voted against the war the Obama campagn never would have got off the ground)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeGPzk8Oca8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no6ENZdb ... re=related

Some people found this woman racist, or laughed at her, I felt neither, I was in fact deeply disturbed not only by what she said but as I listened to her interview I was deeply distrubed at myself, because I started to think for the first time ever that women were less capable of running for president.

I think a few things have harmed womens image in this campagn, in particular Hilary praising Obama one day and the next day exploding with the "shame on you" tantrum, then threatening to nuke Iran in not so subtle terms, both playing into the mood swing steriotype.


They are blaming sexsm for her loss, and I just dont buy that.
There has been a sickening amount of sexist remarks in the media and by supporters, one comentator saying she would not be where she is without Bill (in fact it's likley the other way around), another saying that everytime "she speaks in that shrill voice" men are turned off as they hear their nagging wives, and I read a quote from one guy at a campagn even (a young guy) in newsweek saying "I just came to see how much makeup she had on"...now I can give you an equal number of examples of racism in certan places espcchally Kentuckey.
Racism and sexism were inevitable with two "firsts" running, but racism definitly played a bigger part than sexism.

They are being sore losers by saying
1. She won the popular vote (thats if you IGNORE 4 cacus states which did not record their popular vote), and you add Florida and Michigin neither of which were contested and one of which only Hillary was on the ballot....in any case the popular vote is not how this is measured it's all about delagates (as the Clinton campagn insisted when it looked like she would win the delagte majority but loose the "popular" vote....)
2. That there was vote rigging in the caucus states ....the caucus idea is insane in itself and even if this was true (it's not) it ignores the primaries he won

Then theres the womans point that hes inexperienced....they do realize Hillary has only 7 years in the senate (where her biggest vote was the wrong one)? and that her only executive job, the healthcare taskforce, was a total disaster?

I feel sorry for her supporters not only because many of them are convinced they now wont see a woman president in their lifetime (something I disagree with I think the first woman will come out of nowhere just like the first black one has) but because this is all about her personal ambition not breaking the glass ceeling, as she proved by her campagn threatening the Obama camp not to choose a female running mate if it's not her.

but the worst thning, the thing thats making me loose faith in women as equals, the straw thats breaking the camels back, is their insistance that they will now vote John McCain, they will, out of sheer spite, vote for a guy whos against a womans right to choose and opposed to universal healthcare, two of Hillarys signature issues, they are willing to throw away another generation of womens rights by getting a conservative president in to fill upcoming supreme court vacancies....all out of spite and sour grapes??????

I'm realy starting to question womens logic and sanity, and wondering if the mood swinging irrational steriotype might not be a steriotype at all...

[ntab2]

That's silly. Some of Hillary's supporters are pissed off and making threats about voting for their opponent's opponent. That hardly means all women are irrational. Plus, it's not just the women who are saying they may vote for McCain.

[Squire Allworthy]

Have you considered that a lot of people just don't like O'Bummer?

[hopi watcher]

That's silly. Some of Hillary's supporters are pissed off and making threats about voting for their opponent's opponent. That hardly means all women are irrational. Plus, it's not just the women who are saying they may vote for McCain.

Alas, the US has many people with the IQ of a fly armed with a vote. Democracy sucks sometimes.

[anthonyfw]

That's silly. Some of Hillary's supporters are pissed off and making threats about voting for their opponent's opponent. That hardly means all women are irrational. Plus, it's not just the women who are saying they may vote for McCain.

Alas, the US has many people with the IQ of a fly armed with a vote. Democracy sucks sometimes.

Aye , without appering to be too condescending I think you may be right . Fanaticism and emotional attachement seem to be rampant in U.S politics . Both Clinton and Obama would be eaten alive over here by the electorate . Has anybody logged on to the blogs at HillaryClinton.com ? The venom of some posts is unreal(of course there are more level headed ones as well) , as are the numerous bitter exclamations about switching to the Republicans . A reasoned mind will percieve that both Obama's and Clinton's policies are practically indentical . And Obama himself has shown respect , integrity and the capacity to run a remarkably good campaign . It amazes me that so many would be willing to betray their own party and beliefs just to be spiteful .

And the flimsy excuses are , to be frank , pathetic . Clinton did not win the popular vote . As someone pointed out above the votes from four caucus states were not included in the final tally and Michigan can hardly be counted seeing as Obama withdrew his name from the ballot in accordance with a Democratic Party mandate .

Neither would it be just to seat the full delegates of the aforementioned as he did'nt contest that state .

In polls a majority of Obama supporters have stated that should their candidate lose the nomination battle then they would vote for Clinton . Only a minority of Clinton supporters would support him in the general election . Even if they dislike the man they cannot be unsatisfied with his policies or the causes which his party stands for . Would they really jump ship to the Republicans whose intentions are so vastly contrasting with those of the Democrats ?

[westair]

And the flimsy excuses are , to be frank , pathetic . Clinton did not win the popular vote . As someone pointed out above the votes from four caucus states were not included in the final tally and Michigan can hardly be counted seeing as Obama withdrew his name from the ballot in accordance with a Democratic Party mandate .

This is incorrect - there was absolutely NO party mandate on this for Michigan. He took his name off voluntarily and it turned out to be a bad decision - but the DNC gave him 59 UNEARNED delegates nevertheless. This is only one reason for the bitterness. There were other names left on and Clinton's was one of them. The results were:

Candidate Democratic Preference %
Hillary Clinton 56%
Uncommitted 31%
Undecided 9%
Dennis Kucinich 3%
Mike Gravel 1%

I have to say that the smugness on this board about the IQ of Americans is pathetic if it were not so childish and silly. So the Irish are all gifted with super intelligence - by what measure is this result arrived at? The Irish economy has been buoyed up by US investment and US IT tech firms which have shaped the modern world whether you like it or not.
There is also discussion about how US society is imbibed with propaganda and of shoring up a false sense of superiority - well, folks I have never heard in the US anyone slashing another culture the way I see US culture slashed here. So folks, who are the real products of smug superiority and self promoting propaganda?

The begrudges are alive and well....

[Electro]

What's the point threatening to vote for McCain anyway. He's a Bush clone and his actions in Government will be just the same as his predecessor. GWB also tried the "straight talk" bull back in 2000. However his conservatism disappeared as upon entering office he started looking for a pretext to bomb Iraq. McCain is playing the same election charade. People should be beyond believing these neo con traitors. It would be unfortunate if Democrat women inflict this monster of a candidate on America just because "their girl" didn't get the nomination. Oh well, I guess it won't be their blood lost in his subsequent expansionist wars.

[Keith-M]

HC has certainly done more damage that good to the cause of women in politics. All she did was trade on her husband's name and lie abou the experience she had while he was in the White House. I would love to see a woman President, but the position has to be earned by that woman's own hard work and not just coat tailing her husband.

[odie1kanobe]

What's the point threatening to vote for McCain anyway. He's a Bush clone and his actions in Government will be just the same as his predecessor. GWB also tried the "straight talk" bull back in 2000. However his conservatism disappeared as upon entering office he started looking for a pretext to bomb Iraq. McCain is playing the same election charade. People should be beyond believing these neo con traitors. It would be unfortunate if Democrat women inflict this monster of a candidate on America just because "their girl" didn't get the nomination. Oh well, I guess it won't be their blood lost in his subsequent expansionist wars.

Anybody who believes John McCain is a neo con really needs to start reading up on McCain.

[code twinkle]

HC has certainly done more damage that good to the cause of women in politics. All she did was trade on her husband's name and lie abou the experience she had while he was in the White House. I would love to see a woman President, but the position has to be earned by that woman's own hard work and not just coat tailing her husband.

yeah much better coat-tailing your father like dubya did....

r indeed our own Taoiseach when it comes to that.

family ties matter all the time in democratic politics, its not right but its nothing to do with the fact shes a woman